In this episode, I’m joined by recently retired IFBB Pro Bodybuilder, Mike Giliotti. Mike is a master trainer with expertise in corrective exercise working as part of a multi-disciplinary team in Staten Island, NY to help people with all aspects of their health and physique. He shares his experiences using the Neubie with himself and various clients, including his own introduction to the Neubie that included a near-miraculous reversal of his chronic knee pain. It allowed him to continue training while keeping his knee pain at bay, and led to 4+ inch growth(!) in his legs. He also shares his wonderful perspective on mind-muscle connection, being mentally present and aware during exercise, some stories of client transformations and successes, and some of the particulars of how he’s implementing the Neubie.
Garrett Salpeter (Speaker 1): (00:00):
Welcome to another episode of the NeuFit Undercurrent Podcast. I’m joined today by Mike Giliotti, who is a master level trainer and recently retired professional bodybuilder. He’s part of a multidisciplinary team in Staten Island, New York, and they’ve been using the Neubie for a few years up there and have had some really interesting experiences, some great outcomes, and I’m super excited to have Mike on the show to share some of his experience. And, uh, it was fun getting to catch up with you too before this, because I hadn’t seen you. Uh, well I guess we still haven’t seen each other in person. We’re doing this on Zoom, but you know, it’s been a few years since you came down to Austin and came to the course. So, it’s great to catch up with you and, uh, thanks for coming on the, the podcast.
Mike Giliotti (Speaker 2) (00:48):
Thank you for having me, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yes, yes. Uh, so one of the things that we reconnected on recently was this study that just got published on the Neubie and looking at how it compares to traditional resistance exercise in the realm of hypertrophy. So, uh, for those of you who are not familiar with the outcome of the study, just, you know, quick summary. Uh, this first one here was, was, uh, published in the spring of 2022. And it looks at the acute response of using the Neubie with no external load compared on, on one arm doing bicep curls compared to using 75 to 80% of one rep max doing bicep curls on the other arm. So, traditional resistance exercise on one Neubie with, with no external resistance on the other. And we’re looking at what happens in the immediate aftermath and, and looking at things like fatigue, like muscle soreness, which from which we can infer, you know, a lot of what’s happening in the muscle.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Also looking at ultrasound on the movement of fluids within the muscle cells. So, after a workout, the reason that you can have a pump lingering for a day or two is because fluid goes inside the muscle cells and that’s part of the, one of the precursors to hypertrophy. That’s part of the process because that fluid blood plasma has proteins and, and different nutrients and raw materials that the muscles can use to rebuild, replenish, grow back bigger, grow back stronger. So that’s that muscle cells swelling is good, you know, good thing to have happening. And that’s something that we saw virtually the same or very similarly between the Neubie and traditional resistance exercise. And uh, you know, when we were, we were talking about that study and it was a good catalyst for the conversation, Mike, for you to come on and talk about some of the experiences you’ve had with hypertrophy. So, uh, I think that’s a, a good place to start. So, you know, you having been a professional bodybuilder of course recently retiring as I mentioned in the intro, and then working with various clients in certain settings. Can you talk about, you know, what, what experiences, what applications stand out to you most in that realm of muscle hypertrophy?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yes, definitely. So, um, you know, I had the machine about three years and um, what I’ve seen over the course of time is when people do continually work on the machine for a minimum of anywhere from like eight to 12 sessions, they’ve seen a significant increase in strength and growth. Now I’ve done, you know, measurements, I’ve done pictures, um, but the biggest results, because I own the machine and have access to it all the time was myself. I mean, at 42 years old I’ve improved muscularity leaps and bounds over the last three years. And the machine is definitely one of the main reasons why, because if I look at all the variables, nutrition and supplementation and training, that didn’t change. That was, that was basically set the entire time over the course of my career. So, the only variable that was added and different was the machine.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
And I use it roughly about three times a week and it’s, it’s amazing what it’s done. And what I find is, is what most beginner clients, even if it’s not a beginner client, even if it’s a person who has experience exercising, I always try to tell people, a lot of times people are weightlifting, they’re not body building. And body building requires that mind muscle connection that really separates you from just coming in and just doing a set of curls and just moving weight and not really understanding that the bicep in itself is, should be the only body part that’s working in that bicep curl. So, the Neubie forces that mind muscle connection and forces that activation without them having to necessarily think about it. Because sometimes people come to the gym and they’re, they’re someplace else, they’re not where they need to be. And when I try to teach people being in that set and being in that moment, the Neubie can speed that process along to help them understand that mind muscle connection better, because it’s impossible not to think about your bicep in a bicep curl when you have those pads on.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I mean, it’s just, you know how it goes. It’s very intense and it’s a great feeling. So that in itself is what really helped my clients see a significant amount of results because those pads being on allowed them to get that mind muscle connection a lot better. And then over time they were understanding, you know, mechanics and movement. Then on the other hand, the whole other aspect of it is a lot of times people are injured or they have compensations and things that don’t allow them to do a curl properly or do a bench properly or do a squat properly. And with the pads on, you know, that hijacking the nervous system and overriding going on and it allowed them movement patterns that they weren’t necessarily used to doing pain free. So, you know, you’re getting the healing in one aspect and then you’re getting the mind muscle connection in another aspect. And, you know, it just became a home run. I mean, people were seeing really good results and they were, they were loving training again, you know, they were happy, they were able to do things that they weren’t able to do a long time without pain. So that’s definitely been the, the key.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
That’s awesome. I, I want to underline a, a couple things that you said there. One, I really like that, you know, you say some people, you know, they come into the gym and they’re going through the motions, but really, they’re somewhere else, you know, mentally, psychologically, uh, and being able to, to focus on the, on the muscle that you’re working, being present with what you’re doing. I mean, I, I think that that really is a beautiful description of how exercise can be meditative, can be good for mental health, not necessarily a direction that we need to dive into too deeply in this conversation, but I just, I love the way you said that, I want to call that out for people because I think that’s an element of exercise beyond the, the physical. I think there’s psychological benefits and, um, you know, that there’s, there’s, you know, just elements of that that i, I don’t want to overlook.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
So I wanted to call that out and I appreciate your description there. And then, uh, you know, I really, of course love hearing what you notice with yourself and your clients being able to work around injuries. Yeah, I think that’s a big one that’s speaks to one of the reasons why this study is important and why the, the follow up study, which is so, so I meant the first one I mentioned is just looking at how, uh, how the body’s responding, 24 to 48 hours after a session looking at what’s happening in that acute, in acute phase. And then the next one is looking at what happens over a six to eight week training cycle, just using the Neubie on one leg for knee extensions and then using traditional resistance exercise on the other leg and comparing those. And so, uh, you know, we can’t speak yet about the results until that’s published, but we’ll have, we’ll do a, do a separate podcast about that sometime in the near future.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Um, I, I think that one of the biggest use cases for, for this type of work, you might say, well, I can lift weights. Why would I want to use a Neubie? Well, there are people who are injured who can’t because it’s, you know, there’s the risk of re-injury or the pain that they experience is just so great. So, I’m so glad you called out on that. I called that one out. And then, um, when you talk about your experience using the Neubie, I have a couple follow up questions there. So, you talked about how you use it with, with yourself and clients, and you talked about certain measurements and pictures you’ve taken and stuff like that. So, so I have two questions for you. I’m goanna throw them both out. You can, you can handle him whatever order you like. But, uh, one is what, uh, when you’re doing measurements, are you doing any, any like DXA scans or are you doing more like tape measure and measuring limbs, circumference in terms of measurements and then tape measurements. Okay. Yeah. All right. And then, uh, with yourself, when you first started doing this, uh, started using the newbie, what was your thinking and was it more of, you know, using it in using it on a a, on a specific body part or area where either there was, there’s less growth or less mind muscle connection? Or was it trying to work it in throughout, you know, your entire body and all, all the major muscle groups or what, what was your approach in the beginning and how has that evolved?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Well, just to go back, uh, a real quick story of why I bought the machine and came out to Texas. Um, you know, uh, Terrence uh, introduced me to the machine and he was, he was the only guy in Manhattan at the time to have it. And my, my knees, I had no structural damage, but I had a pain every time I would squat, the, the front of my knee would just basically feel like it was goanna shoot against a mirror. Like it was, it was very tight. And I rolled, I went through my due diligence of rolling, stretching, pt, massages, everything. Nothing was really working. So obviously something was going on where general movement pattern or sleep or how I was standing or whatever was going on was superseding the stretching that I was doing because it just wasn’t enough. And then that one treatment, when I went out to go see him the next week, um, after I, you know, I was obviously very sore the first treatment and the next, like five days later I tried to do legs and I couldn’t believe it.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
I was like, this is crazy. My knees, I didn’t feel any pain, I didn’t feel any discomfort or anything. So, then I went out to Texas, tried it and fell in love with it. So, when I brought it home, the main focus at the time was legs because from a body building standpoint of me getting on stage, uh, one of the things that I lifted was my, my legs weren’t as developed as my upper body now. It was more like a, I guess you can just say overall, like it was kind of like a lagging behind, like the development was there, but you, my leg should have simply been bigger. And since I’ve gotten on the machine, I’ve been able to do full leg workouts as if I’m in my twenties at 42 years old now. My legs grew more than they’ve ever been over these past two years. They’re the biggest they ever been. They’re the most developed they ever been. And my knees feel great. So that, that’s
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Awesome. So, speaking of growth, can you, can you tell us, I mean, if you were doing measurements on your own legs, what, what did the tape measure say?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Uh, they grew roughly about four to six inches. Wow. Uh, circumference west. Yeah, it was, it was significant. And you know, if you look at my last two shows, one was 2018 right before I bought the machine and the other one was 2022 right now in May. And you know, I can send those over to you. It, it literally looks like I swallowed the 2018 mic. I mean, my legs, my legs are completely different now. It’s, and I, I owe it all to the machine because I legitimately can. And the best part is, is I didn’t have to necessarily go back to my normal workouts in my twenties, meaning, meaning weight wise, I didn’t need to get under four plates and five plates doing squats anymore because that stimulation was there with half the amount of weight. All I had to do was make sure that I programmed the machine and set it up properly and understood what I can and can’t get away with.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
And then I always tell new, new clients, you know, you have to trust me. I, I don’t like doing the one session wonders with people because, you know, you guarantee that that deep soreness and, and the Neubie looks like a hero, but it can, if you, if you don’t respect a machine, it can cripple you for a week in terms of soreness. I mean, you can’t walk. And I’ve had that happen to people because they, they just simply just don’t get what I’m explaining to them. They’re like, oh, trust me, I’ll be fine. I said, you know, no, you’re, you’re not. I said, if we do a regular workout out of the gate with this machine, you’re not goanna be able to walk. You’re goanna think about me the entire week. You’re goanna have a tough time sitting. And sure enough, we’ve tried it and they go to sit down and they’re like, I can’t sit.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
And I’m like, yeah, I told you, you got to respect the machine. The first workout I do with everyone is body weight. You know, the first workout is simply just body weight and you know, lunges, squats, a little bit of ART DL’S and just some simple movement patterns and they’re literally feeling like night and day difference. So, I, I, I learned to respect the machine. I built up my tolerance, I know what I can and can’t get away with. And eventually I got to regular workouts using the machine but would have to wait. But obviously getting great results.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
That’s awesome. Yeah. Beautiful description there. Is that, do you have a rule of thumb in terms of, uh, like you said, you know, you start new clients with body weight workouts? Yes. You know, of course you can’t do too much. The Neubie is a very powerful machine with great power comes great responsibility and, uh, quoting, quoting our friend Spiderman on that one. Yep. Um, uh, so do you have a, uh, rule of thumb for when you add weight or how much you use? Are you, you know, working up to a third do a half of what people would do without the machine? Is that pretty consistent? Does it vary? Can you just share with everyone a little bit more of how you’re thinking and approaching that?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, so basically it, it comes down to the initial package that the client buys. So, if I know I have them for roughly 12 sessions, then I can kind of gauge how I’m goanna roll the machine out because obviously I’m in the business of keeping clients and, and, and putting out a product that, that they love and, and want to come back for more. So, if I know I only have a handful of sessions with them, I may be a little bit more aggressive in terms of how I ramp up the level of intensity and how, uh, how much I kind of push them on the machine. But what I, what I do is no matter what the case, the weight is always the last part of it. So, I’ll ramp up the frequency, uh, the intensity faster than I’ll ramp up the weight because I want them to understand the power of the machine and let them feel what the machine can do without necessarily going heavy.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
So, it, my, my thought process is, is step one is we do body weight exercises, step two, we probably do about a third of the weight they would normally do. And I’m playing around with the intensity and the frequency. I usually stay between, uh, 55 to one 60 on the, uh, frequency. And then I kind of, uh, intensity wise really just depends upon their level of what they can handle. You know, some clients can handle 30 in the intensity and they’re, they’re more than happy with that and they feel it and they get good results and soreness. And then some clients, you know, have a higher tolerance and they’re able to do more. So the intensity varies, but I’m always focused on the machine first and then the wait second if that gives you a better idea of what I do.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah, absolutely. I think, uh, one, it’s a very intelligent way to do it, not surprisingly given the results that you’re, that you’ve been getting and how consistently you’ve been helping your own clientele there. Um, so that’s great. And um, I think, you know, there’s progressive overload. We all know this concept of like, you know, once you get stronger you need to put more weight on the bar and keep challenging yourself. And there’s multiple ways to do that. And one way is by adding more current on the Neubie and getting more muscle recruitment there. So, to choose to kind of go up and progress there and then after that continue to progress by adding weight. I think that I think that makes a lot of sense. Um, so yeah, that, that all sounds, sounds excellent. And, um, when you talk about, you know, various clients you’ve worked with or think about, various clients you’ve worked with, I want to pivot here a little bit and ask if you’ve had any other of these success stories come to mind. You talked about the, the growth in your legs and being able to overcome that, you know, pretty debilitating knee pain and transform from one show to the next. Um, any other, any other, you know, changes or, or results with your clients that really stand out?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, two, two cases. One would be, um, one of my male bodybuilding clients. Uh, he came to me, um, where he was a nationally qualified bodybuilder, you know, great physique overall good balance and, and he presented a great package on stage, but there were things he needed to improve on. And, you know, his back and his hamstrings were two areas that needed to come up and he made a conscious effort to see me at least twice a month on the machine. And we hit, um, back, um, uh, twice a twice a twice a month and we hit hamstrings twice a month. So, what I found to be successful is his budget always plays a role sometimes because I can’t go through insurance to, um, use the machine. So budget was always a factor with my clientele, but what I found most successful is the machine has residual effects.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
It’s not one of these products you put out there where you use it and it’s like, oh, if you don’t use it again, you’re not goanna get anything out of it. Their follow up workouts were really good in terms of pump and, um, my muscle connection and blood flow. So, we went alternating weeks for back and hamstrings for about, I’d say three to four months. And I have pictures of that as well. And that was significant improvement. I mean, he, he as well, just literally you can see the muscle tissue that was added to his back and you know, the variables were the same. You know, sometimes people in the body building world, you know, they’re always goanna blame enhanced supplementation as why things took place. But the, the variables were not different. The variables were the same other than the machine. And, you know, me explaining to him the, the, my muscle connection and, and helping him understand movement patterns a little bit better, but the pads being on the lots and the pads being on the hamstrings, he saw significant changes. It was, it was great to see.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
That’s awesome. Awesome. And, uh, was there one other success story that came top of mind or,
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah, most, I mean, most of my female clients who want to use the machine come with one goal in mind. And that, and that’s a bigger, but, and uh, you know, the Neubie has such a strong, um, connection to the glutes and a lot of times when people do squat and do their leg exercises, they necessarily don’t know how to connect very well to the glutes and their movement patterns may be off. So, the, the machine allowed them to fix any holes they had in terms of like, they may be squatting, but they were more quad dominant when they were squatting. So, we fixed that movement pattern and the machine, because of the current, they allowed it, allowed them to get in a, in a more, uh, comfortable position where they could fire their glutes up more properly. And then obviously just putting pads there alone, getting that muscle activation that my muscle connection, it helped build their glutes up significantly. So, most of my female clients just keep coming back because their butt looks better. I mean, that’s that simple. So, and they’re happy, so
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Excellent, excellent. Give the people what they want. That’s good.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yeah. Yeah, that’s it.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
That’s, that’s great. So one of the things that you said there that I, that I really like that I just want to, want to highlight again, is the how, uh, this other male body builder who you’re talking about, who could only come every other week, but he in the other workouts when he wasn’t on the machine, could get better activation in in his back and his hamstrings, those muscles he were working because of the enhanced mind muscle connection, enhanced neurological activation in those areas. And I think that’s something that is, you know, I’m just so glad you mentioned that because I think that’s really important. Also speaks to a little bit of the technological differences of, of the Neubie, the type of current, this dual wave form, direct current. Cause if you use a traditional alternating current device, for example, and you, you can, you can track muscles, but you’re not actually goanna be speaking as powerfully or as precisely to the nervous system to create some of those more lasting changes.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
And it’s not, it’s not about making the machine a crutch that, that anyone becomes reliant on. It’s about using it to tap into and improve the capability of the system over time. So, I love how you mentioned that. Um, one of the other things that, that we had talked about that I’d love to give you a chance to share here too is some of the, the changes you saw in range of motions you’ve been talking about, uh, talking about, you know, hypertrophy by muscle connection building mass, um, and, and being able to do it with less weight in a safer way around pain, which is all, uh, I think really wonderful and will really resonate with a lot of listeners. Um, can you share, share, you know, just one or two of the experiences you had using the glove?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, so the, the glove started, um, with, uh, one of my training partners where, uh, he had, uh, significant shoulder tightness and, uh, he went for MRI X-ray and there was no structural damage. So I knew that if I kind of got him on the machine, he probably can see, see a lot of benefit because even there were times where we had clients where they’ve had torn rotator cuffs or torn labrums and we put them on the machine and they’ve gotten better range of motion and they were able to kind of, uh, improve overall performance because the muscles around the area, we woke up again and got them firing properly. So, it helped with the injury in terms of that support system where those muscles kind of got turned off. But, um, when the glove came out, I, I tried it out and I did just, you know, some, some of my own test runs and I found that when I combined almost like an A R T approach with the glove and the machine in the shoulder area, their range of motion changed dramatically, and their pain levels went from a 10 to a five within one treatment.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
And it was, it was scary how quickly the response was. Now the, the treatment itself is, is very aggressive and, you know, I had grown men basically borderline in tears curled up on the table, you know, trying to manage the pain. And you know, I say to myself, was I pushing them too hard? Was I too hard on the current? But the reality was is I was just kind of really just waking up muscles that have been so tight or turned off for so long that within a few minutes, like ten second intervals of, you know, putting my thumb in a certain area or putting my hands in a certain area, you know, the subs cap, the la the terrorist major terrorist mind, that whole entire area just released so much tension. And they went from kind of like moving their shoulders legitimately like this to going full range all the way back.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Like you kind of, you, you, I physically saw like a weight come off their shoulders. Like they were just like, holy smokes, just relax. And they never got through that tension because they’re stubborn lifters and they just kept coming back to the gym and, you know, they stay in that state of trauma and that state of inflammation the entire time, they didn’t let it heal. So by getting them on the, the glove and doing that treatment, you saw that whole weight lift off their shoulders and they saw a lot of good results with that. So I’ve kind of been doing that, um, really mainly with shoulders. Um, I do it with the glutes a little bit, but for the most part I’ve been seeing most success with the shoulders combined with the glove.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
That’s awesome. And, and so I asked him about the glove, and I appreciate you sharing that. I, I asked without sharing the context of what the glove is, for those of you who don’t know, we’re taking a, a conductive fabric glove, connecting into the Neubie and then using the, the hand to apply pressure. So, so in someone’s shoulder you might get under the armpit and put pressure on the, on the subs cap, for example, and mobilize that tissue, apply pressure and movement there. And if you use the electric glove, we have found generally that, that you can, with less pressure and less time, you can get a greater change in, in tissue. So it can, you know, make it more time efficient. It can save effort or save hand force and, and wear and tear for, you know, for the person who’s, who’s providing the treatment or, um, it can, you know, it can have a variety of different, different applications and benefits, but, uh, that’s, it’s really cool to see that. I’m glad you had that experience. And similar
Speaker 2 (25:12):
And the best. The other part with the glove, which makes it great is, you know, sometimes the pads simply can’t go in certain areas where, where like, uh, like, uh, I lost you said the, the pads can’t go in certain areas, like, you know, putting it under the armpit, it won’t stay, it won’t hold you try to tape it. So, the glove allows you to kind of get in, in areas of the body that are difficult to get to. And that’s, that’s where I originally started using it for that reason because I, no matter what I did, I couldn’t hold a pad in place for the, for the under the like armpit area. It just kept falling off. So that’s when I really started messing around with the glove. So that’s another thing that’s beneficial with the glove.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Awesome. Yeah, I’m so glad you were able to get that and work it in. And, uh, it’s awesome. Really, really wonderful. I love what you’re doing. Uh, I’m so grateful to you for coming on and, and sharing your experiences and, and some of these stories and just, I’m grateful to you for being a part of NeuFit Nation and helping to move this work forward and reaching the people of Staten Island who, you know, without you, if we wouldn’t be, wouldn’t be able to impact there. So, it’s just wonderful. I, you know, I appreciate your partnership very much. And, uh, as we, as we wind down here, want to ask if there’s anything else on your mind that you’d like to share with the listeners, and then also where ask where people can find you in terms of, you know, Instagram websites, uh, your other social media platforms, wherever you’re most active.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, I mean, I’m, I’m most active right now on Instagram. Um, I have a website, mike Giuliani fitness.com. It matches my Instagram, Mike Giuliani Fitness. Um, I’m venturing into TikTok now a little bit and just trying to learn that platform. But for the most part it’s, it’s, uh, Instagram is where I really connect to my clients and more people that aren’t local to me. Uh, my gym is in Staten Island, New York, so I do reach a lot of people within the New York, New Jersey area. But, uh, I mean, the only thing I would add is, is, you know, there are skeptics in terms of new devices and things like that, and they’re always kind of like, oh, I don’t know about this product. I don’t know. And, and I am that person. I legitimately don’t believe anything. And when it came to the Neubie, I was blown away from day one and I’ve literally been changing lives on that machine for three years.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
So I’m super grateful to be part of the team and I love the machine and everything that it does, and I still think there’s more to learn on it in terms of like what I can and can’t do with it. And I just continue to, you know, try new things and watch your podcast, learn more about the machine, and you just got to try it. If you, if you have that hesitation where you’re like, oh, I don’t know if it’s goanna work. I mean, I, I see significant results across the board and my partner John, who also uses the machine, gets a lot of great results with his clients. So, it’s definitely worth doing and I highly recommend it to anyone.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
That’s awesome. Thank you so much for the, for the kind words there. Um, and I’m goanna put you on the spot for one final question. So as a, as an expert in, in body building and body composition, uh, for, for people, you know, more general population, what is the, the one piece of advice or the one most important thing that you would recommend for the non-bodybuilder? Someone who’s not eating six meals a day, working out every day, but for general population, what’s the one thing or one piece of advice you could give that is goanna move the needle the most on body composition?
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Three words, structure, discipline, and patience. If you can kind of work on those three areas, I think in anything that you’re trying to achieve, you’ll get results. So, I always try to tell people, find the base structure, stick to it, and believe in the process, trust in the process, and allow it to take its course. You know, we just don’t basically everything’s like now, now, now I need it now. But if they just have the patience to allow, technically any diet works in theory if you do it long enough. So, you just have to have the patience to let it run its course. And you know, the structure and the discipline to follow it. And I think ultimately, you’ll get results that way.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
That’s great advice in, in health, body composition, business and life.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Excellent. Yes, sir. A wonderful note on which to, on which to end the podcast today. Thanks so much for joining us, Mike. Thanks everyone for tuning in and, uh, it’s, it’s been wonderful. Thanks again for joining us.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate
Speaker 1 (29:38):
It. Yes, have a great day, Mike. And everyone, thanks for tuning in. Bye-bye.
Speaker 2 (29:43):