In this very special episode of The NeuFit Undercurrent, I’m joined by two of our collaborators for our upcoming education module on the pelvic floor, Pagona Xenos and Carly Jeston.
While talking about pelvic floor dysfunction can sometimes be uncomfortable, living with it is moreso. Pagona and Carly discuss how to normalize talking about this with your patients, some successes they’ve seen with their own clients using the Neubie, and give you a sneak peak into what you can expect to learn in the pelvic floor educational course.
Welcome to a very special episode of the undercurrent podcast, we are in the middle of a weekend of filming our continuing education course on pelvic floor health. And I’m joined today by our wonderful guest instructors and collaborators on this course we have Pagona Xenos. I like that. I like that. And Carly Jeston.
[Carly Jeston] 1:03
Thanks for having us.
[Garrett] 1:04
And we have we’re getting to take a break from filming these modules to record a podcast to talk about the pelvic floor. And this is going to be a very interesting podcast, I believe, in part because we’re going to be talking about something that a lot of people either don’t know, that they can get help with when they’re dealing with issues. And sometimes its things that people are uncomfortable speaking about. And, you know, I’m hopeful that this course and even just this conversation in the podcast can help bring to light opportunities to solve problems that can be impairing somebody’s quality of life and function in terms of, I mean, reproductive health, in terms of waste elimination, in terms of pain and function. I mean, there’s just so many things that we’ll, we’ll get into here. But let’s, let’s talk first, just to set the stage for people who don’t know, as much about the pelvic floor and what it does, and you know, why it’s important and why we’re even having a course on that, can we start with a little bit about what just what the pelvic floor is, and anatomically and physiologically what its function is? Sure,
[Pagona Xenos] 2:19
I mean, the pelvic floor is there for support, it’s like right in the center of the body, it supports so many structures that are coming from below and above. For one, it supports our organs, our viscera. The pelvic floor is comprised of so many muscles, hammock muscles, that go from laterally and from front to back. And in fanning in between is multi-dimensional. So it’s involved in supporting the viscera, you know, our, intestines, and our reproductive organs. It’s, it’s vital. And of course, our sexual health, who doesn’t like to have good sex? It’s not fun to have painful sex. And we want people to be able to talk about that openly and freely. And currently, do you have any
[Carly Jeston] 3:05
Yeah, I think it’s also really important to remember the connection, this kind of the center point of the body is connected to everything else and can show up in different ways affecting hips low back any issues like that. So I think it’s important for everyone, men and women.
[Garrett] 3:22
And so pagoda you work out of practice in Arizona and work with a lot of mostly women, but we do not exclusive to women, but the in the pelvic floor area. And then, Carly, you’re working out of practice here in Austin, and going and doing a lot of mobile work going and seeing people in their homes. So let’s want to ask both of you. We’ll start with Karla here. So can you talk about some of the examples of patients or clients that you’ve worked with for pelvic floor related just to show people the breadth of how this type of work can impact them and their quality of life? The different types of circumstances where it’s important?
[Carly Jeston] 4:08
Yeah, for sure. My, primary focus is postpartum women. So that can mean women who just had a baby to women who had babies years ago, I have a client that I’m working with right now. She’s been having some issues. She had a baby about three, three and a half years ago. She’s been having some issues with some sciatic pain, you know, kept trying to find the right answer what’s going on, you know, this sort of thing went to see specialists and couldn’t quite figure out what’s going on. But we figured out there was some pelvic floor dysfunction. So I’ve been working with her as a newbie, and within about two months, she’s pain-free. She’s doing all of her things that she’s limited and doing before hiking, that sort of thing. So it’s been awesome just to see you know, this kind of seeing where you just don’t make those connections where it’s a pain is showing up in one area of the body, but it’s coming, from the pelvic floor dysfunction. So that’s been cool to see.
[Garrett] 5:07
That’s awesome. That’s kind of a breakthrough insight for sure have this pain that you think, Oh, it’s my back or this
[Carly Jeston] 5:12
Or that? Or you know, and it’s related. It’s all connected. Yeah, strengthening and focusing on that area has been helpful.
[Garrett] 5:22
Awesome, awesome. How about you, we’re going to what examples kind of come out top of mind to showcase the importance of this pelvic floor at work. Well,
[Pagona Xenos] 5:30
The way that it got started for me is I started seeing women and as a fascial, stretch therapist, you know, I work a lot with moving the fashion. Fashion is something that moves slowly. And so it was very different than the massage work that I was doing, we’re going to trigger points and deep tissue and manipulate the tissue. This was different. And what I realized is when it came to the pelvic floor movements, even in hamstring stretches, when I got closer to the pelvic floor, a lot of women especially men would stop me and would hope that it can’t go further. And it’s not that I felt that tissue couldn’t move, but they were psychologically stopping me. And so I started, you know, looking into that, and you know, just asking questions, but the most important thing in this work, as a practitioner is to ask questions, and make them help the client feel safe.
[Carly Jeston] 6:21
Because like you said earlier, it’s a topic that feels embarrassing. And there’s a lot of shame related to it, so we don’t talk about it. So bringing that to the surface and finding out how Oh, I’m, I’m afraid to completely let that leg open up in case I, I have a little accident, or you know, something happens, and I won’t do that. So as I started researching more and more, I realized how intricate it can be to manipulate and move the pelvic floor. And I started becoming more comfortable with it and helping them feel comfortable. And once we were able to, to break down some of those adhesions, just like it’s kind of miraculous how things open up.
[Pagona Xenos] 7:05
And I’m bringing that connection between the mind and the pelvic floor. Because, you know, we were saying earlier with Carly, how, when we talk about, you know, pumping up the biceps and getting the back worked out in the legs and getting those quads looking good, we talk about that we show them off. But no one talks about how I’m contracting my pelvic floor, and I can go to the bathroom properly. And you know, those are things we don’t talk about. So I started noticing these clients, I started, you know, just kind of zeroing in and creating a protocol on my own to help them with this issue without really making it the target, but in a roundabout way, until I got the newbie.
[Garrett] 7:55
So we’ll get into that here. But I also want to touch on something you said there where you were working with someone you know, on a hamstring stretch, you’re working for a range of motion movement optimization, or Carly, like this example, where you’re working with a woman who had sciatic, and they’re not coming to you for a pelvic floor issue. So So you mentioned that you know, there’s this necessity to bring it up. So what types of questions do you ask or how would you bring that up? To find out if it’s an issue in a case where someone hasn’t specifically come to you for pelvic floor work?
[Pagona Xenos] 8:29
Sure, I first start with the pain. Are you experiencing any pain, any tension? And that’s where, you know, I’ll we’ll start and as I start to, you know, work with that tissue and unravel and wind it a little bit and they start to feel a little more released. I’ll get into more of those deeper questions. Are you experiencing any pain during intercourse, and it’s a lot easier to talk about that with women? Men experienced this a lot as well. A lot with prostate problems, you know, erectile dysfunction. Who wants to talk about that?
[Pagona Xenos] 9:04
It’s difficult unless you’re with your medical provider. But these are things that we can bring up. So those questions and then getting into things like Have you fallen recently, have you? Did you have traumatic deliveries for birth? And those sorts of questions that can stimulate? You know, the thought process? Oh, you know, what, yes, I did I had an accident, or I fell it while skiing or, you know, I love my kids, but man, that was something, you know, it’s really difficult for women who have had babies to reconcile how they have these beautiful beings, but their body was kind of destroyed in the process. And you know, it’s to put those two together. It’s really difficult psychologically, and emotionally.
[Garrett] 9:50
So there those questions can be kind of a good segue into the conversations around pelvic floor health or dysfunction or somebody’s making it safe to have these actions. Yeah.
[Garrett] 10:00
And so I mean, a lot of that has to do with, you know, anytime, as a, as a provider as a caregiver, you know, you got to build rapport and be able to ask those types of questions and be present with people. And I mean all those to be able to talk, especially to talk about something where someone might feel that sense of shame or embarrassment.
[Pagona Xenos] 10:17
Yes, and you know, a lot of what happens there too, with women, especially as we have normalized, you know, sneezing and crossing our legs or sneezing and losing a little bit of that, you know, bladder function, and making it a joke. Oh, that’s what happens when you have kids, or that’s what happens when as you get older. Because a lot of the clients that I see are not necessarily just postpartum, right, they can be grandmothers already and have these issues. And it’s normal to go down the grocery store line and go into the depends aisle, but actually, there are things that we can do to avoid that.
[Garrett] 10:52
Yeah, absolutely. And so one more follow-up on that there. Before we move on to another topic. You mentioned that it can happen, you know, when someone’s a grandmother, these pelvic floor issues how, what is the time course, so is there a typical time course I know, we were talking before, we started recording about how I had thought before this weekend, and a lot of people have the impression that, that if there’s any pelvic floor damage, it’s like immediately after childbirth, however, it can sometimes come on later, can you speak to that kind of general pattern? Sure.
[Pagona Xenos] 11:29
It’s very individual. The truth is that pelvic floor dysfunction will happen when you have a child. Now the body recovers, you know, fascia especially loves to go back to where it belongs. But let’s say you had a cesarean section that’s a big scar that facial tissue starts to pull. Now a lot of women don’t present any symptoms, they may have things like prolapse, but they don’t present symptoms. And they may not present symptoms for a while. And that’s that can be a year later, that can be four years later, that can be 20 years later because other things happen. So let’s say there’s a little bit of shifting in the tissues, and the organs have shifted, no, no symptoms, but 10 years down the line, there’s a car accident, there’s another shift that will then make the person feel like something has shifted. And they may say, oh, it wasn’t an accident that caused this. But this the shifting had already started,
[Garrett] 12:34
it was already teetering on the edge of an issue, and that pushed it over the edge, but it was already how about I mean, you mentioned this, this one example, currently of working with a woman who was you know, three and a half years postpartum and didn’t make the connection,
[Carly Jeston] 12:49
Right? I think that happens a lot, especially with women, we think, Oh, well had a baby 10 years ago or something, and don’t it’s, again, this normalization of things, like, you know, bladder leakage, and that sort of thing that just doesn’t get addressed. If we’re not talking about it, then, you know, it’s, it’s, it can be can, like you mentioned, really a source of shame and embarrassment, or just an assumption that this is normal, I had a baby, this is just how it is. But really, the body wants to, like I said, kind of go back to that, to that proper function. So that’s, that’s really what we’re trying to help people do is, is realize that like, it is possible, and we can, we can help speed up that that healing process,
[Pagona Xenos] 13:34
What I’d like to see normalized instead of you know, this is what happens is that fourth-trimester care. Once a woman has a baby, once someone has a lumbar surgery, or any kind of surgery, prostate removal, that after that, they have PT, pelvic floor, physical therapy is a very specific field. But if everyone goes into that care immediately, there’s, there are things that can happen that prevent us from having the, you know, horrible.
[Carly Jeston] 14:12
And as things in that it prevents those things from showing up later in life. You might not realize, you know, what likely Oh was, everything’s working properly after I had my baby. But if you aren’t going in to be seen by a specialist as a matter of course, then you might not know, just might not have the awareness. And then it’s harder to make that connection. Oh, maybe this is because, you know, I had two children, you know, back to back several years ago, and now it’s just showing up for me in this way. Yeah.
[Garrett] 14:42
Just the same way as there is kind of expectations norms around maternity leave having expectations and norms around postpartum care, I think would be a huge win. We need it. Yeah. That’s, that’s awesome. So you brought up the pelvic floor specialization within physical therapy. And you know, right now we were talking about how there’s a huge waiting list to see pelvic floor specialists and how this is a much-underserved area. And part of that, because there’s not as much awareness around and all the things that we’ve talked about so far. So let’s talk specifically about if someone you know if a patient were listening, we’ll talk about providers and acts and people who might be interested in taking your course to be able to offer these services but as a patient now, if someone’s experiencing sexual dysfunction, experiencing incontinence or other issues with elimination if someone’s experiencing, experiencing prolapse experiencing pelvic pain, what should they do? What should their first step be? Generally speaking,
[Pagona Xenos] 15:54
It’s important to see a doctor and someone that specializes, whether it’s a reproductive specialist. If they can’t get into a pelvic floor PT right away, it’s important to have that doctor’s note so we know what’s going on. And then, until they get to a PT, they can see someone like us with a newbie, where they’re doing or without a newbie, even just doing specific work, pelvic floor work. This is I mean, the exercises that are involved in supporting the pelvic floor are things that, you know, physical therapists, personal trainers, massage therapists, functional movement, therapists, they all know what to do there. And helping and supporting and helping the client connect to the pelvic floor, bringing the attention there until they can get to pelvic floor PT.
[Garrett] 16:51
So let’s so I think there’s a there’s a couple of scenarios here. There’s one is there are some pelvic floor PTS who are using a newbie, and then there are some complementary people, you know, collaborate with them who use the newbie, so there are a few different scenarios there. Let’s, let’s break this down a little bit. So even before we had the newbie, what are some of the exercises that people would do that can help the pelvic floor? Because I don’t think I think people might know K goals like I can squeeze my pelvic floor muscles. But you know, there’s certainly a lot more. So what are some exercises that people can do to make an impact here?
[Carly Jeston] 17:28
Yeah, absolutely. One thing that I have used with clients for a long time is just something simple, like a bridge. So that’s activating, you know, some of those muscles that are maybe have been turned off. And then also, we talked a little bit,
[Garrett] 17:42
We think about before, before going from that, and a lot of people will hear that and think, okay, it trains my glutes, right? But like, can you speak about the link between like, you know, the lateral rotators underneath, and you know, how that actually can get into the pelvic floor?
[Carly Jeston] 17:54
Yeah, and I know you use this, this moves a lot with your clients. So
[Pagona Xenos] 18:00
With things like the bridge, for example, yes, you are working the glutes, but those hammock muscles connect from front to back, and from side to side. So literally, what we can do with a bridge is when you’re in it, you’re not, you’re not addressing as much the glute as you are starting to fire into the size of the pubic bone, and also that the groin muscles, so you want it the adductors you want to get all in there. It’s I think it’s important to remember that with key goals, for example, you know, you mentioned those, you’re creating tension in that area when you’re using Kegel. So the key goal is not to exercise when people have pelvic floor dysfunction.
[Pagona Xenos] 18:47
It’s something to use a little bit. Because although you think oh my gosh, okay, so I have this laxity in my abdomen, I need to strengthen everything. And, of course, when women have babies, or they have some kind of surgery, any client that has surgery says I want to get my body back, I’m in a rush, I’m going to go and I’m going to lift and I’m going to squat, and I’m going to. But because there has been that shift in the body automatically, the brain tenses up those muscles in the pelvic floor and there’s a lot of tension. So we think that we have to strengthen and strengthen but there’s so much tension already that we have to find a way to relax. So as you lift into that bridge pose, opening up those legs, and allowing them to just soften and then going back in the detention so that we’re training the brain to think about controlling that area. So it’s not in that constant state of fight or flight ya know that anything can leave my body and allow you to control when you’re going to tense and when you’re going to relax, tense, relax. That’s a nerve pathway that needs to be imprinted
[Garrett] 19:57
On a present, because so many times we get stuck in one day. Mean, yes, we need to be able to oscillate between them. So, so there, I think that’s kind of cool because it’s taking into exercise that, you know, we all know taking a glute bridge, but changing the emphasis whether it’s by focusing on the adductors, or abducting and abducting the hips, I can change we change the impact,
[Pagona Xenos] 20:21
We have a bunch of exercises that are alternatives to the bridge posts that are in the course, of course, so you can see a lot of that. Yeah, where we teach you how to activate the different parts down and
[Carly Jeston] 20:35
A lot of these exercises are things you can do without the newbie, so you know, a lot of people might be familiar with them. But then adding that on top is such an effective, especially finding that balance between the tension, the active, the active work, and then really understanding and being able to fully relax into that the with the frequency changes to
[Garrett] 20:57
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[Garrett] 21:28
Yeah, so that is a good segue now into how we can apply the newbie. So there is this field of pelvic floor physical therapy, and different exercises and different manual techniques that can be used to help here. How can adding the newbie, make this more effective? How can an enhance or amplify the effects of these types of treatments?
[Pagona Xenos] 21:49
That’s how I think of the newbies and enhance enhancement. So again, as Carly said, you can do all of these exercises, people can do them on their own, they can go online and find these exercises. There are so many pelvic floor PTS because they realize how important it is that have created online modules for people. Where the newbie came in for me is, as I was saying earlier, my word is an imprint. I love imprinting these patterns. And that’s what I believe the newbie does. And it helps I use the master reset quite a bit just to go back a little bit. Another thing that people can do is do breath work, to learn how to breathe, really learn how to connect through the breath and how, to expand that abdominal cavity and how to bring it all back in and zip it up, as we say.
[Garrett] 22:40
And there’s a really interesting connection that so that the diaphragm runs horizontally in that transverse plane, across the body in the middle of you know, between the chest and the abdomen, and then the pelvic floor is parallel to that. So the diaphragm and the pelvic floor, this is kind of mutually supportive relationships stick Yeah,
[Carly Jeston] 22:59
Yes. Yeah. breathwork is, is I know you use it a lot with your clients. And then with postpartum clients as well. It’s, it’s the starting point, for any of that healing to take place. That breath is crucial. And then using the newbie on top of that, really can kind of trigger in the brain, those like you’re talking about that pathway of like connecting to your breath. What is it supposed to feel like? You know, when I’m in this on an inhale, and what does it supposed to feel, I feel like on the exhale, and then it really being able to find that balance, and then it becomes natural. It was just a natural,
[Pagona Xenos] 23:35
it becomes natural until it becomes imprinted. So I have a client who had prostate cancer and had his prostate removed, and we’re working with him. I had seen him before for stretch therapy typical. But then once he had the surgery, he was in that state of fight or flight, he couldn’t see him he was excited, and he had a lot of anxiety. So what I started doing with him is instead of going out onto the PT floor, went into the private room that I have and set him up with master reset, and did breathing techniques through the whole thing.
[Pagona Xenos] 24:12
Then I go into using a little bit of the FSM frequency-specific microcurrent to get the vagus nerve involved and do some vagus nerve fight, myo fascial releasing around the ears. And he’s in love with it. He talks to me about how he’s sleeping again, how he’s able to calm himself when he gets a little bit of that anxiety. He’s starting to feel comfortable with movement again. So we’ll get him back on that stretch table. But this is a process as he’s in his sexual function, and this relationship with his wife has shifted. So all of that is important to target. You know, we, we can go at it like let’s get these muscles moving again, you know, and it’s a very delicate subject and issue
[Carly Jeston] 25:00
And then I think that’s what’s nice about the neubee too is you can use it in these more passive ways. Yes, we’ve talked about it a little bit, especially if you don’t have to go back to the idea of if you’re not able to get into physical therapists right away. These are ways that practitioners can use the newbie to help clients, whether that’s a master reset, whether it’s a little bit of gentle glove work, or the FSM stuff was all effective,
[Pagona Xenos] 25:23
Or even having the direct current but at a low intensity just to get that nervous system activated again before things start shutting down.
[Garrett] 25:31
Right. So far so for, for physical therapists, or other people who are doing more wellness services out of their offices or chiropractic offices. Doing some of these things can work in conjunction with the pelvic floor physical therapy for pelvic floor physical therapists who have this you know, I think
[Pagona Xenos] 25:49
Your pelvic floor physical therapist with a newbie, that’s like starting.
[Garrett] 25:55
One, one question that I think is on at least the minds of some listeners as they’re thinking, about treating the pelvic floor. Where do I put the pants? Oh, yeah. Great question.
[Pagona Xenos] 26:09
We talked about that in our course, of course. And I think, using the, you know, the foundational information knowledge that you have as a therapist as a, as a,
[Carly Jeston] 26:25
Well as a new fit practitioner to knowing that you can always go back to that mapping. And that scanning mapping process can help you understand your client and where that dysfunction is. And then also, you know, there’s a variety of ways you can do it. And it depends, you know, in our course, we give a lot of good examples, I think, yes, placement depending on the exercises. So, you know, there’s some great info in there, there’s
[Pagona Xenos] 26:50
so much room for creativity, because yes, we can go close to the muscles, we can get close to the pubic bone, we can get around, you know, the gluteal fold and the growing areas, of course, the ABS, definitely, but all of that tissue is still connected to other parts of the body, I may work on the pelvic floor and have some pas in the suboccipital area or the thoracic area because we have, you know, t 10, two L one has a whole series of nerves that connect to the bladder.
[Pagona Xenos] 27:21
So I may work there and do some thoracic openers, I may do the footwork, we have so much fascia that connects from the outer hip around like a sling around the foot and goes right into the pubic bone. Yeah, we can work the leg. And so it depends on the comfort level of the client, you know, how we can get so creative with a newbie, there’s so much room to do. And we’re still researching and learning. You know, there’s so much and I feel like the more that practitioners allow themselves to open up their minds a little bit to that. It’s, it can be great. Yes, for sure.
[Garrett] 28:01
Yeah, that’s I’m excited to get this work out into the world and be able, to see more examples of how the newbie can do that. So that’s, that’s wonderful. One other use case here that I don’t think we’ve touched on yet that I do want to talk about is, you know, you mentioned the nerves at the base of the thoracic spine that help control the bladder. A lot of times patients with MS or spinal cord injury or other nerve damage or neurodegenerative conditions can have issues with bowel and bladder control. Can you tell us about how we might be able to use a newbie and how we can help people dealing with those types of challenges?
[Pagona Xenos] 28:46
Neurogenic conditions, I think it’s something that I like to work on in conjunction with their doctor. So any Ms, Parkinson’s, saddle anesthesia, that kind of neurogenic disorders that I have, I’m always in contact, I have the client sign a HIPPA release form to allow me to connect with their physician, their surgeon or their PT and be able to come up with a plan there. Once I have that, go ahead. And I’m done. I can start working in those different areas and, and monitoring them like really, once they leave my facility.
[Pagona Xenos] 29:23
I’m checking in with them the next day, how are they feeling? I want to know what the newbie did for them. Sometimes with these cases, they’ll feel things more and that concerns them. And so, you know, as you know, sometimes when you wake up some of those nerves that have been dormant or that you know, they’ve been functioning on a low level, things happen and that raises their concern but being able to connect with their doctor and let them know that that’s part of the experience and then as they progress and feel better and have a little more control. I just think that as a practitioner It’s important to stay connected with that team that’s working with a neurogenic. Population.
[Garrett] 30:07
That great, great points. And that brings up something, something that we haven’t talked about actually that I’ll ask to put you on the spot a little bit here. So, you’re working out of a chiropractic office that’s more traditional. It’s not a pelvic floor practice more like sports medicine, traditional chiropractic, how, how has this type of work been received? How is it change or impact all the dynamics within your within that practice? And the other practitioners who are there? What’s, what’s that dynamic? Like? Or how is how has that affected the practice? Overall?
[Pagona Xenos] 30:40
It’s funny, you’re asking me this question now because I had a little break during the holidays. And I’ve gone for three weeks, and I went in last week to work and the doctor said to me, I don’t think we can function without you here. First of all, I think he wants to steal my newbie. He loves it. But it’s been great because he was sharing with me how having me work on that floor and his patients watching what I do because it’s an open floor model.
[Garrett] 31:13
The gym floor, not the pelvic floor. The gym floor?
[Pagona Xenos] 31:19
Yes. Having his clients watch me do the work my clients has been great because I hear him talking about the newbie all the time. And this is what she does. And this is how I can help you once we’re done here. Or even while we’re doing this for you. Now, I want you to go see her. So the referral back and forth is constant. And he’s an athlete. So he keeps injuring himself in different ways. He comes in and calls me I need you to put me on that movie. And he’s like a huge proponent. He talks do you want me to give you a, you know, a referral? Do you want me to talk about you in any way because he loves how quickly he can recover? When he injures himself? Yeah,
[Garrett] 32:06
That’s cool. I like it from afar, seeing the kind of collaborative nature of the practice and you know, how you have different specialties under one roof. And it’s just a cool thing nice
[Pagona Xenos] 32:18
to have that synergy, you know, with and when people respect what you do, and you and they just, it’s an easy flow, they can talk about you nicely, and people then feel clients feel like they trust what you do automatically.
[Garrett] 32:34
I’ll similar question for you, Carly. You know, so how did being the practice you’re out here in Austin, you know, as a medical practice that more on like, you know, functional medicine, health optimization,
[Carly Jeston] 32:48
Human optimization? Yes.
[Garrett] 32:50
So how, how did you get to focus on this? And how has that dynamic? What is that dynamic, kind of within the broader context? How did it happen? And how is it kind of impacted that?
[Carly Jeston] 33:03
Sure, absolutely. So when I started working for them, I had just gotten my training certification. And I did not know about the newbie until I came to work there, they had one there in the office. So they sent me over here to the headquarters to get trained on that. And as soon as I started working with it, I mean, it just absolutely changed everything, you know, working with their clients I do on all of their clients that come in, I do the mapping process. So each of their clients that come in gets to have that experience, which is I mean, just such a cool offering for all of them.
[Carly Jeston] 33:40
And then, you know, they can choose to continue working with me on rehab, whether it’s rehab or training. So that’s been that’s kind of how I got into it. And then from there, I decided to get my movie. And so now I bring that to, you know, through COVID and everything it was it was challenging, I think, for people to get out and get to the gym and this sort of thing. So it’s been it’s just been an amazing tool to be able to put it in my trunk get in the car, go see my clients, you know, work with them in their homes or out of their gyms. And it’s just been it’s been an amazing thing. And I can’t I tried I never trained personally without it anymore because I just love it so much. It’s so effective and just been an amazing tool.
[Garrett] 34:29
Awesome. Yeah, it’s kind of so it’s kind of a branch off of the main tree trunk. Yeah, that. And then, can we talk a little bit about your personal experience here too?
[Pagona Xenos] 34:42
Yes. So I feel the same way as currently. I’ve been doing I’ve been a massage therapist for 23 years, but I haven’t been doing massage for a while. So I started. I was lucky too as soon as I graduated to work in clinics and with PTS and how that sports world around me. And then I bought 12 years ago, I was trained in facial stretch therapy, at the stretch to women Institute in Tempe, Arizona, which shifted my practice tremendously. Just being able to work in that facial tissue helps, again, shift the way that the client was walking, and it held that they were able to hold those patterns a little longer. But I still felt there was something more and I started researching, I got into the neuroscience of movement and all of that and kept looking and looking and found different kinds of things that I did electrical stem. And then the newbie presented itself.
[Pagona Xenos] 35:42
And I have to after I came to Austin and receive the training, I just, I will it was in February of 2020, I closed my practice the following month, due to COVID. And at first, I thought, oh boy, I invested in this machine, and now what, but actually, it allowed me to dive in and started working with it. And by June, June, I started working again, and by the fall, my book was full of clients. So what I love about the newbie, again, is, as I was looking for those ways to help people hold the thing, the work that I was doing that manual manipulation, how can they hold it longer? That was a key for me that was key for me. Yeah, and helping them maintain the things that we had been doing longer periods, and then actually retraining themselves, like, you know, now that I feel this, I’m going to work on keeping it.
[Garrett] 36:41
Yeah, that’s a great point, I think that’s one of the biggest benefits that, you know, come up on this podcast from time to time. And, you know, if you’re doing manual work, and you’re, you’re opening up some new ranges, being able to, to imprint to use your favourite word, their word of the weekend, being, you know, being able to imprint the proper motor control patterns in that new range, if you don’t do that, the brain is going to recognize, oh, I have this new range, oh, but it’s not safe, because I’m out of control there, and it’s going to tighten everything back up. And you’re not going to be able to maintain that new range. And so here, this can allow you to maintain that make it safe to access that new range. So I agree with that. I think that’s a great insight. So I just wanted to kind of under underscore that,
[Pagona Xenos] 37:22
Yes, thank you. I mean, that the newbie I just asked, you just have to trust it, because it’s kind of it knows what to do. It’s the energy we have within us. So it just collaborates with our own and helps us remember what we can do. It’s how I see it.
[Garrett] 37:37
It’s great, a great way to say I like so for me, just, you know, in all of this, one of the things that’s the most, most exciting and most gratifying and humbling part of seeing new fit grow is being able to see how like, you know, you come to the course in February 2020, as you said, and Carla, you only start working this practice, come over here, how we can go through in our level one certification go through these principles of neurology and how to apply neuroscience into daily practice, and see how you can then take that and go and apply it in these areas that, you know, we certainly don’t teach specifically in level one. And how by, you know, by collaborating, we’re able to help a whole new population of people here with a whole new set of challenges and circumstances and to be able to see, one, I think it speaks to how powerful these neurological principles are.
[Garrett] 38:31
Because if you have a solid set of principles, you can take that and you can apply that in many different, you know, specialized circumstances. And then and then to just to see that the benefit the far-reaching effect that can have in this new area where especially this one where so many people feel hopeless, because they don’t want to talk about it, or they don’t know there’s the solution. So to see that, I just think it’s wonderful to work. And I’m so grateful to both of you for being here this weekend to film this course.
[Garrett] 38:59
And from the time we’re recording this podcast, there’ll be a couple of months of you know, production work and finalizing everything, but you know, we will be launching that course. So for anyone who has a newbie, and is already working with the pelvic floor, or wants to add that in, to be able to help and complement the work that that their patients or clients might be doing with other therapists with other their gynecologist with other with their urologist who whatever whoever it might be, be able to add that in. So those are all the options there. I’m so excited to share this with the new fit nation with our community. And so grateful to both of you for being here. This is wonderful.
[Pagona Xenos] 39:39
Thank you for allowing us the time and the energy to share this with everyone.
[Carly Jeston] 39:44
Yeah, we’re excited about it. It’s been a great, really great collaboration. So yes, yeah. a Glass of beer.
[Garrett] 39:50
Awesome. So if people want to want to look up both of you and see you what’s the best place for social media No, I know because I see you both on Instagram
[Garrett] 40:00
Because that’s kind of the place to be.
[Garrett] 40:03
So what is your handle?
[Pagona Xenos] 40:05
@pagonalife
[Carly Jeston] 40:09
@Carly Jeston Fitness,
[Garrett] 40:10
Probably just in fitness. All right, good. Thank you. Yes, thanks. Thank you both again for being here. And thank you to everybody who tuned in to listen to this episode of The New fit undercurrent podcast. We’ll see you next time. Thank you so much for listening to the undercurrent podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review and be sure to subscribe to stay up to date as we release future episodes.
