Dr. Carolyn McMakin is the founder and lead instructor of Frequency Specific Seminars, where she teaches clinicians to use particular frequencies of electrical currents to target specific tissues of the body and address specific conditions and states. It’s profound — and reproducible — how these specific frequencies can have very precise actions on certain areas of the body. We’ve seen a lot of benefit combining her work with the Neubie, too, so we wanted to get Dr. McMakin on the show to share more information with all of us. In this episode, Dr. McMakin gives us a “tour around the body,” describing many of the conditions that she’s been able to treat with these methods and the profound outcomes that have been achieved. She also shares some of the studies and her proposed mechanisms of action at a cellular level.
Welcome to this episode of the undercurrent podcast, I am ecstatic to have Dr. Carolyn McMakin here. And you may know her as the author of the resonance effect and the literal textbook on frequency-specific microcurrent. She has been the Pioneer leading the charge in frequency-specific microcurrent for the last 20 plus years, has certified many 1000s of practitioners, and many in our community here in the new faith community of practitioners have gotten interested in FSM have started implementing it in months, and to have Dr. Making McMeekin on here is just really a treat. So I’m very excited. Thank you so much for joining us.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 1:31
Thank you Good feeling is neutral. It’s always fun. Working with people who understand the effect, of current and frequencies on biological and neurologic tissue. That’s my favorite thing.
That’s mine, too. So that’s a great segue. Great way to dive in here. So can you just kind of frame this up for people who you know, and have more or less familiarity with your work? Can you start with just at a high level describing for all of us what FSM is?
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 2:08
It all started 20 some odd years ago, probably 9095. I got a list of frequencies from an osteopath, who bought a practice in 1946. That came with a machine that was made in 1922. And that machine came with a list of frequencies. He walked into this practice in 1946, the machine was in a backroom, covered up with a sheet. It takes the sheet off and says what’s this and started working with it. And I met a group of people that were his patients and his colleagues. And one of them went down to California worked with him for three months, and then brought the frequencies back, literally written on pieces of typing paper and stuck in a drawer in 1983. In 1995, he found the list, we had a precision micro-current that’s two channels.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 3:17
And the list is organized with frequencies to neutralize certain pathologies or conditions like inflammation and scar tissue and histamine reactions, nerve trauma, and a list of frequencies for tissues. And they’re in our core class, there are maybe 150 more tissues than conditions virtually every body system. And so in 1995, I started treating myofascial pain, and with George, with the chiropractor that got the frequencies from van Gelder 96, I started treating myofascial pain 97 I started teaching it to find out if it was reproducible 98 we figure it out, literally by trial and error because all I had was a list. I didn’t know if any of these frequencies would work. They’re all below 1000 Hertz. I didn’t know if they work. So once I found out that they work, then we had to find out if they weren’t reproducible while I’m a fee-for-service practice. So I can’t do placebo treatments.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 4:32
Although we did. A number of those portions of those like the machine would be turned away from me. I didn’t know what was running. I didn’t know if the machine was on. We did that for six or eight months. So I taught at 9798 was started treating nerve pain 99 We started treating spinal cord and brain injuries, asthma, and any condition that involves inflammation so over the years? Well, first, it was simply clinical science. It was science it was you do this, and that happens and you observe it. And then when you can you measure it, and then you do this. And that happens again when the conditions are the same. And then you do this, and you can predict that that will happen. And then you have to teach it to find out if it’s reproducible.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 5:28
So the model we had in the early days was probably not correct. The model we’re using now, which is finally testable, is that the frequencies appear to change cell signaling. So on the outside of every cell, well, first, the body is a semiconductor because of the way that water flows in between the fascia and inside the blood. If you read the fourth phase of water, you’ll find that the flow of liquid inside arteries and veins creates a conductive current. So anyway, every cell has receptors on the outside, they’ve just covered hundreds of 1000s on the outside little protein receptors that are I think of them like antennae. And the thing that we had to explain was, when you use the frequencies for toxicity, for example,
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 6:39
the effects of the toxicity go away, liver enzymes go down the effects of certain toxins on biology change, and the patient doesn’t have a detox reaction, they don’t get sick, they don’t get whatever that meant. And this is clinical, again, clinical experience, that meant the toxin had to already be gone. Right. So if we were liberating toxins, then the patient would have a detoxification experience and would be sick or uncomfortable. They don’t. So what was that about we lived with that for 10 years, then one of the practitioners in Australia is an MD with a great Mind for Research? And what we came to was that these receptors when an organic chemical gets embedded in the membrane, these receptors get Caddywhompus they get into an abnormal configuration.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 7:51
Now the toxin over time, is leached out and removed, right? But the receptor is still not in the right place. It’s not normal. What we think happens, and the only thing that makes sense, based on a clinical response is that the frequencies receptor and the receptor are connected inside the cell to kinases transcription factors, DNA, and messenger RNA, which we’ve all heard of, but micro RNA does the business of the cell, it creates the proteins. So by changing the receptor, we modify the cell function, or the frequency resonates with something inside the cell. Right now I’m attached to the receptor model.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 8:49
For example, we treat gastrointestinal, gastrointestinal disorders, Crohn’s, irritable bowel, inflammatory bowel, and ulcerative colitis, as long as there’s not an active infection, we SIBO treat all of those things. And patients say, Well, I’ve had this for 10 years. Okay. You don’t have a single cell in your digestive system that was there. Well, four days ago, up till seven days ago, there’s not a single soul that hasn’t been replaced in your gut. So how is it you have had this condition for 10 years? The only thing that makes sense is that the receptors on the outside are modified so that they express the genes for inflammation or histamine.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 9:46
And when they get reprinted and reproduced every three to seven days that reproduced in the abnormal configuration, frequencies come along and change to a receptor and that changes what the cell produces. So it’s, it’s a reasonable model, it’s testable, we haven’t found anybody willing to test it yet every, every facility or university that I’ve talked to that can do that kind of research, wants more money, and bigger projects that are university-affiliated. So we have a little bit of an issue with getting the research, but that’s how we think it works by changing cell signaling.
Interesting. So one of the most fascinating parts about this that you mentioned, you have a list of approximately 150 frequencies, some are related to functions or actions, and more of them are related to specific tissues. So you know, ultimately, the large one of the concepts in resonance is how specific frequencies resonate with and impact specific tissues.
And one frequency, you know, that what affects one tissue won’t affect another? Is it? Is it through that mechanism that what you think is that certain frequencies will stimulate receptors of certain cells that are part of certain organs or tissues and not others, it’s, you think it’s a receptor-based mechanism?
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 11:19
That’s the model we’re using now, it’s the only thing that matches what we find clinically. So, you get an idea of what the problem is. So 20 234 years ago, I treated the muscle, we would treat like neck pain, low back pain, we treat the muscle over the last 10 years, it has become apparent that you have to treat the cause the muscle is never 100% of the time is never the problem unless the muscles been hit with a bat or cut with a machete or have scalpel or something. Muscles are never the problem.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 12:02
So we you had, I’d had an idea about what the problem was, and it didn’t work. Over time, it took five years and about 40,000 patient visits. Before I understood that the frequencies always do exactly what they’re alleged to do, but only what they’re alleged to do. So 2003, it was in the Oakland Raiders training room. And Keith pine was treating a player that had a hamstring injury on Sunday.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 12:35
His teeth were treated on Monday. And I worked in the training room on Tuesday. And he said, I have been treating inflammation in the tendon for an hour yesterday and it doesn’t work. It’s like okay, well, let’s feel it. Well, when you palpate it the tendons are fine. But you slide off the tendon, and there’s a bursa versus like, you guys know what the bursa is? Right? Okay. So you slide off the tendon, you put your fingers on the bursa and the patient flinches. Football players never say out. Right? Their muscles react, so it’s like, Okay, now the frequency for the tendon is 191 Hertz.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 13:17
The frequency for the bursa is 195. Four-hertz difference. And how somebody in 1922 decided that 190 wonders were attended and 195 was the person completely lost. When the AMA made the use of frequencies and electro medicine illegal. The grandfather died, and his library went away. If any of you’ve ever cleaned up your grandparents’ or your parent’s homes after they pass away, what do you do with his library?
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 13:51
It’s full of all these funky things. So all that research is lost, I have no idea. So I’m a clinician, a clinical researcher. And so I slide off, and there’s the person it’s like, well, let’s treat inflammation in the bursa. Versus it goes away. Now that the tissue is soft and pain-free, you follow the tendon down, and where the tendon attaches to the periosteum. That makes him flinch. Well, the periosteum is very well integrated. It’s like integrated felt.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 14:21
So he ran inflammation in the periosteum. And it was done. Keith treated him the day before for an hour. Keith is good with his hands. And it didn’t work. You had to treat the right thing with the right thing. So over time, that has become apparent so you have somebody with rigid, lumbar paraspinal muscles, the quadratus lumborum is like a brick. And so you mash on the muscles and you get a little bit of softening.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 14:56
You treat the muscles and it works a little bit over time, we’ve found that the cerebellum will inhibit the motion of any muscle that is adhered to a vital tissue or earth. Like it’s not negotiable, the cerebellum is a complete dictator. And you don’t need to know what it’s doing, or why. So after 10 or 12 years of frustration, I happen to find out that the patient had a history of kidney infections. So I was treating the kidney for inflammation, infection, and scar tissue.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 15:50
And the QL is relaxed. And then there’s a fat pad that’s like a catcher’s mitt between the kidney and the quadratus lumborum. So fat doesn’t scar sclerosis. So we treated scarring, and sclerosis in the fat pad. And then kidney infection also causes inflammation down the ureter, so treated the ureter and the so as for scar tissue, and everything turned to flood. And this is all trial and error.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 16:25
So my ideas about what should work. Don’t determine what works. The frequency response is completely predictable. And the cell signaling model is also supported by when we treated fibromyalgia patients who had fibromyalgia associated with spine trauma, that paper was published took us five years because nobody wanted to hear that Fibromyalgia was curable. So we had 54 patients.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 17:00
And they have full body pain, pain in their hands and feet. Pain in the shoulders, elbows, hands, hips, knees, and full body. And the very first patient was in 1999. And we, the only thing that would create full body pain was the spinal cord. I thought so I treated inflammation in the spinal cord. And it worked well. And then after a year, I lectured at NIH, and we got data that showed us that all of the inflammatory cytokines produced in the spinal cord went down by factors of 10 and 20 times in 90 minutes.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 17:52
Yeah, most of you know that. You know that. Cytokines, when they change with medical treatment change slowly, over one to three months, if they change at all. This was a 10 to 20 times logarithmic rate reduction in 90 minutes. And they all stopped in the normal range when the patient’s pain was zero. So the patient came in at an average of 7.4 and left at an average of 1.4. After 1675 minutes, they all stopped in the normal range.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 18:32
It took 1015 years for groups of us around the country to come up with what made sense because all of those cytokines are produced by cells in the spinal cord in response to signaling that changes what the cell genes express. Substance P is made in the spinal cord and transported to the periphery, substance P went down by a factor of 10 times in 60 minutes. That’s not possible. So the cell signaling model is the only thing that explains it. But it just makes it fun because, at this point, fibromyalgia, from spine trauma patients is everybody’s worst nightmare.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 19:22
You can’t touch them. Their pain level is out of control. You give them enough Gabapentin to get their pain down and they can’t remember what their car keys are for or stay awake. So that’s how we’ve developed the model and how the treatment has gone over time. tendinopathies so tendon injuries. You described your ligament injuries. Yeah. After I got my hip replaced left hip, I started walking more and within a month I developed a Have Achilles tendinopathy, on my left, left Achilles, I treated it with inflammation, chronic inflammation, all the things that should make that tendon, not be inflamed. And it just kept getting worse and worse. I treated it for 10 months and just finally gave up and worked. And my tendon was the size of two thumbs next to each other, exquisitely painful.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 20:24
We were at a medical meeting and the exhibit booth, and one of my practitioners was there with me and she said, this feels yucky. I said, can you treat it? She said, Yeah. So she chose the frequency for torn and broken. I have no idea what this frequency does. It doesn’t make any sense. Even with the cell signaling model, torn and broken combined with the tendon. And the pain started to go down immediately. The contacts that she had, she was using graphite gloves at the time. Contacts she had got warm. And in 60 minutes, the tendon was normal size, completely pain-free, and never needed. Another treatment was done.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 21:12
That is a very good look on your face. That’s amazing. That’s it like, okay, so then we started experimenting with this torn and broken for me it was a fly by I never, I never used it. So now we use it well, the shoulder. Somebody has a shoulder repair that doesn’t go well. This was an actual thing that happened to one of my practitioners. He said the shoulder repair on this side went great. I had this repaired a year ago. And I’ve got trigger points everywhere in my shoulder. Well, they repaired the supraspinatus tendon. And they did it laparoscopically. So I felt his shoulder and it was the trigger points in the muscles were like cat litter, they’re everywhere. Can’t be the muscle. He’s an expert, trigger point therapist at Jefferson Medical School PT department.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 22:12
And I thought, let’s try torn and broken in the tendons around torn and broken in the tendon. Trick muscles relaxed, and the trigger points disappeared. And then I got some more history. And I felt around and the surgeon had missed a tear in the Terry’s there’s a partial thickness tear in the Terry.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 22:35
So I ran it for an hour trigger point’s rock on the shoulders pain-free you have to take the scar tissue out between the subscapular nerve and the subscapularis muscle. And then I said just run this on yourself an hour a day for the next four days and try not to break it again. So where we’ve evolved to in the last 20 years, it’s never the muscle, you always treat the cause. So in the cervical spine, you treat ligamentous injuries you treat facettes in the Upper Cervical as you treat adhesions between the nerve and the dura you treat discs and the lower cervical spine. And that relaxes muscles. We think it’s the muscle because that’s what you can feel with your hands.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 23:23
So the physical therapists and the pm and our doctors and the chiropractors that are listening. It’s never the muscle. You have to treat use the frequencies to treat the cause. Why is the cerebellum making the muscles tight? What is it trying to protect? Right doesn’t come from space. The cerebellum tightens the muscles to protect the joint, the ligament or the disk that protect tightens the QL to protect the kidneys, the kidney and the ureter adhered to the fascia is the cerebellum going to let you move that muscle if your ureters glued to it? I don’t think so. It’s not negotiable. So over time, we’re talking 1000s of hours and patients and mistakes. I’d like to go back and retreat everybody. I treated the 1997 through about 2005. So dissolving scar tissue. I don’t know how it works. I have an idea. But that doesn’t mean it’s real.
Well, can you share with us your idea? I mean, I’m interested in that actually, you talked about you know that mechanism of toxicity about how by getting the receptor you’re changing without having to excrete the toxin in the same way as we just traditionally think so yeah. Wow. If you’re not mechanically pulling apart scar tissue, how are you? How are you energetically? What’s your hypothesis on that model?
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 25:08
What appears to happen? If you think about scar tissue, I’m really glad we decided to do a video on this because I use my hands. I’m Italian, I can’t talk my hands
Off. People are listening, I’ll try to train, and I’ll try to describe your hand motions, too.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 25:26
So if you take a rubber band, and you know how you wind it up, and it winds and wines and wines until it winds down on itself, and its double and triple wound, and it’s short. That’s what scar tissues are like, but it’s collagen. And there are little crosslinks that hold these coils of scar tissue together, they’re crosslinks. My idea is what appears to happen is the frequency resonates with the bonds that hold the crosslinks together.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 26:03
So every biological tissue is made up of molecules, atoms, and subatomic particles, right? Every arm, everything is biochemical. Every mechanical structure and chemical structure is held together with electromagnetic bonds, right? Oh, yeah. So when a singer sings a note that matches the binding energy that holds lead atoms together and a 70%. Lead crystal glass, she sings that note. It has to be precise, exactly that frequency.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 26:54
And she has to hold it at that frequency for long enough that the lead atoms vibrate, and they just come apart because they’re vibrating in response to the note that is being projected to them. So what happens with scar tissue? There are a set of frequencies that loosens scar tissue. My first experience was in a burn unit. Thanks to BART flick. I went to Mercy St. John’s Burn Unit in Springfield, Missouri in 2003.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 27:32
And we worked on chronic burn patients. All full-thickness burns are the most difficult kinds of scar tissue. Eight patients and every single one of them had so the PTS measured on Monday, Friday, and then every Friday for I think a month. Every patient had statistically significant increases in range of motion after three one-hour treatments. Wow. Yeah. So that was burn scarring. We’ve since worked on more burn patients one in Taiwan that was just spectacular. The kid had 80% of his body burned in a fireworks accident was closed caught fire.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 28:20
And his elbow was stuck in think it was about 15 or 20 degrees of flexion. He couldn’t straighten his arm, and I treated him for an hour. And at the end of that hour, his elbow was straight. The skin doesn’t look the same, but the underlying connective tissue so scarring works best when you’re treating the connective tissue and skin and abdominal adhesions you treat the adhesions between the organs and the peritoneum are made of connective tissue but then you have to treat the scarring between the organs.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 29:02
So, in somebody with endometriosis, irritable bowel, Crohn’s inflammatory bowel disease, ruptured appendix, whatever the sigmoid will be glued that say to the peritoneum on the left, but the sigmoid can also be glued to the ovary, to the bladder, the uterus. And you just peel all those apart. And the nice thing is that in general, it doesn’t seem to come back. So then, and you have other questions on my list, but it’s the interesting outcomes.
Ad Break 29:51
If you’re ready to supercharge your practice, listen to this. [Garrett] and Team New fit. I’ve just released a new online course entitled Introduction to the new fit method in this detailed data In Our course you’ll gain mastery of the fundamental techniques in our practice, including muscle testing and activations, nerve glides, and joint articulations. You’ll also get introduced to our patented direct current stimulation device, that newbie, an incredible machine that’s empowered professionals just like you to help their patients heal, adapt, and grow faster than they ever thought possible. To learn more, go to www. ne U dot fit, slash learn. And now back to the show.
Well, well, one of the things here that I think is really, really interesting, and just you’ve already shared, of course, this range of I mean, helping people with, you know, chronic disease and myofascial pain, and you know, even intractable cases, like fibromyalgia and your tendon, I mean, it’s so cool, that story that you told with our mutual friend, Keith pine, about working with the football player, you know, in that story about, you know, you can discover, well, if the 10 is not the tendon is the bursa.
And then you can say, it’s the periosteum. So, one of the things that I think is so interesting is that there’s almost this diagnostic component, there’s this theme emerging that like, you can guess and check, you can hypothesize, oh, I think, you know, I think the QL is tight because of a disk. And if you treat the disk and doesn’t work, then you try the next thing. You say, Oh, my gosh, no, it’s because of scar tissue, you know, from my previous kidney infection or something. So there’s like a, there’s like a diagnostic component.
And, you know, one of us speaks a lot in our new fit community about trying to get to the root cause and finding why muscles are tight, or where why there’s a perception of threat that’s triggering pain. So to be able to do that, and that something that you speak about in your curriculum that there is sort of a diagnostic component to it?
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 31:52
Yeah, that’s it. As you go through the curriculum, one of the things that turn out is, and as I said, it took me five, six years and about 40,000 patient visits to figure out that the frequencies don’t work. So in that respect, their diagnostic, probably 40% of the class is diagnosis. How do you tell if it’s a disc or upset?
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 32:26
Well, muscles hurt worse when, if it’s a disc when you flex forward if it’s a set when you bend back. So that tells you what to treat and the range of things that you never had to think of before. So if the only thing you can do is put a needle into it, it doesn’t matter what caused it. The only thing you can do is put your elbow on it, or your thumb, or give them a pill. Doesn’t matter what caused it. And our world. The patient is picking pears and Uncle Ralph’s orchard. And he’s had shoulder pain ever since. So you could treat the tendinopathies that didn’t work, treat the muscle that didn’t work. Then Uncle Ralph has an organic orchard?
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 33:20
Oh, no, he sprayed at the very last minute because the whole family goes down and picks pears, and Susan hates spiders. And so this year he sprayed as late as you can. Okay, so you have a man with trigger points like cat litter and a shoulder. And maybe there’s a little tendinopathy. But you ask him questions about how he metabolizes alcohol or caffeine. Find out his liver doesn’t do those right? Well, so you already know that he’s not going to metabolize organic chemicals very well. So you treat toxicity in the fashion and all the trigger points disappear.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 34:04
So you have to think about it took me 20 years to figure out that the class I have to teach is not frequencies, you can look those up there on the list, but the list is useless. I have to teach you how to think about how pathology and the nervous system I got to get to this because we’re almost done here. Our pathology and the nervous system work together and how can be influenced by how you have to think about that to achieve an optimal result. So for example, and you have to everything you know, everything you’ve learned in your career comes in handy. So we had a patient in if you read the resonance effect and you read chapter 10 in there is a case report from the neurologist that was at this class, this kid had been a pedestrian hit by a car in a coma for three months.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 35:13
When he was 22, he came to the seminar when he was 28 or 29. And he had the most ferocious intention tremor, like he, he had not been able to hold a cup or take a cup to his mouth in eight years. So, intention, and tremors are associated with the basal ganglia. So we treated the frequencies to increase secretions in the basal ganglia, the spinal cord, and the nerve, and use two machines, one to run the basal ganglia and one to run the spinal cord.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 35:49
And intention tremor completely went away, smooth pointing the whole neural lot and the neurologist is sitting there doing this neurologic exam. And then I said, well, we really ought to connect the sensory cortex to the basal ganglia to make the motion intentional and smoothies. So I ran the frequency to increase secretions in the sensory cortex. And the tremor came back and was way worse. Wow. And it’s I looked at the neurologists and said, Steve, what did I just do? He said you overwhelm the ability of the basal ganglia to handle the input from the sensory cortex and quiet down the sensory cortex. So there’s the frequency that quiets down that activity.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 36:40
So we quieted that down, increased secretions in the basal ganglia, and he was back to smooth pursuit. In treating stroke patients, you increase the secretions in the sensory and motor cortex, drive it down through the cerebellum, and drive it down to the spinal cord. And some frequencies do this, it’s in the neurologic section of the course. And then the cool part is when you work on an extremity, like, especially shoulders, but any extremity that’s been painful for a long time, you fix the peripheral pain, the active range of motion goes to normal pain is zero. But there’s hesitancy, the movement is not coordinated to move the shoulder.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 37:30
There are nine or 10 muscles that have to fire in exact order. Who does that cerebellum, so you increase so you get the shoulder normal new increased secretions of the cerebellum, and then it will move normally. But it’s like the patient can’t find it. All the input from that shoulder stops in the thalamus because there’s been so much pain involved. While the thalamus is the Pain Centre, it’s part of the midbrain, the thalamus, the hippocampus, and the amygdala, all work together to teach you not to do that again because that hurts.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 38:14
So there’s a frequency that quiets down the thalamus. And so we, we that’s like afraid to move it. The symptom is the patient is afraid to move it. Quiet that down, and then increase input from the sensory cortex and increase input from the cerebellum, spinal cord movement returns to normal. So what would normally take six months to 18 months? Happens in two weeks. We fix the peripheral it’s just it’s been amazing and what we’re doing with the nervous system just knocks me out. thalamic pain like from strokes is a knock on wood.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 39:01
So far, we haven’t found anybody it doesn’t work on. Like, that’s impossible. post-operative recovery speaking of Keith pine, Heath got me started with Oakland. I ended up working with San Francisco. I followed Terrell Owens to Philadelphia and he had an open spiral fracture and his fibula tore all the ligaments in his ankle that a plate and two screws were put in. I flew out to treat him immediately after surgery because he wanted to play in the Super Bowl in six weeks.
I remember that Eagles patriots.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 39:39
That’s it. Yeah. And McNabb doesn’t like getting sacked and the offensive line was having a bad day. So Terrell did well, but it was supposed to be a career-ending injury, and we had it done in four weeks, and the frequency to remove scar tissue or so was powerful. I wouldn’t use them till we got to Jacksonville.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 40:04
When he got to Jacksonville, he couldn’t run. He ran 20 yards and his lower legs got. And so we spent five hours. Brian Glotzbach and, I ran the frequencies brand new systems and we took apart Terrell’s lower leg and his foot took apart all the scar tissue. My cat rock adjusted it the next day and Friday, he ran like you’ve never been hurt. That’s impossible.
And when you say you waited, you waited for the scar tissue, you waited to apply it to you at the side of the Super Bowl, is that because you wanted to have some natural scarring as it healed? And so you didn’t want to? You didn’t want to block that process? Because you do need some scarring? And you didn’t want to make it unstable? Is that what you’re thinking? Or?
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 40:48
Well, that’s the other trial and error part, I found out that after a new injury, through trial and error, you have to wait six weeks to take apart the scar tissue. The body needs repair tissue to be laid down to heal the injury. And then we can thin it out and take out the abnormal scar tissue.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 41:14
And, you know, two or three hours instead of 18 months, because normally the body would remodel it with use. And it’s like yeah, we’ll just help you along with that. And doesn’t. So far, it doesn’t take apart. Scar tissue is required. It just takes apart the scar tissue that you don’t need. So it’s a multitude of uses. Treating neuropathic pain is just easy. Nerve pain is just easy. Neuropathic atrophy so if somebody has thinner or hypo thinner atrophy caused by a disc in the neck. It’s easy. The first time I did it was in 1997.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 42:04
And I didn’t believe it. And now it’s like, oh, yeah, we can fix that. Yeah, that isn’t arthritis in your thumb. That’s the C six nerve root here, look. And in 20 minutes, it’s gone. You still have to strengthen the muscle. But you can resolve the neuropathic pain and emotional stuff. This is there. There’s a list of frequencies for emotions, right? Hurt feelings, anger, resentment, grief, terror, right, there’s 970 on Channel A, and then these organs associated with these emotions and channel B, and they’re all mediated by the nervous system.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 42:48
So the midbrain, the hippocampus, the amygdala, and the medulla all cooperate in giving you the experience you have of an emotion. But once you have frequencies that address the emotions specifically, you learn how they’re layered. So a woman loses her child. And her presenting emotion is his grief. We learned at a seminar women came as an as a student. She lost one of her children who had a genetic disease. She took him to the ER and told the doctors what was wrong. They wouldn’t listen to her. He was dead by morning.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 43:36
And so grief is the presenting emotion. That’s acceptable. My students got her on the table during the practicum and the good Samaritans ran the frequencies for grief. And this woman is just weeping, you know, tears running into her ears and all of that. And I walked over to the table, and I changed the frequency from grief to anger. Anger is not acceptable. Grief is acceptable. She was furious at the doctors.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 44:14
So I ran anger and resentment. She has another child with the same genetic disorder. Terror. And then we could run grief. And there were no tears. Wow. So the frequencies and I have a Master’s in Counseling that helps me think about these things this way. Football player’s football players do not have emotions. They have hamstring injuries that don’t resolve. So you treat from the low back to the knee. You do your muscle work. But you run the frequencies for fear and hurt feelings and the 10 Dinajpur these, but the emotional component, they don’t have to talk about it. It just works. And it helps resolve components of some of the conditions that you see.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 45:15
Working on abdominal adhesions and a patient that’s been raped is completely different than working on abdominal adhesions in a patient who has an irritable bowel. Right, the emotional component between the two is different. And the midbrain is always associated with emotions and these days we treat the vagus all the time. So the vagus nerve is turned off by infection, stress, and trauma.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 45:43
And the vagus nerve controls the immune system, your vocal cords, your digestion and you’re swallowing. And your bronchi. And in cervical spine injuries, the vagus gets glued, get scarred down. So the vagus we think of it as being from the chest down. The vagus is like a spider web in your neck. There’s a branch of the vagus that goes back up into your skull and innervates the back part of the dura and blood vessels or stretch receptors. Vegas controls your blood sugar. That’s just amazing. So we treat the vagus when it’s appropriate. So welcome to my world.
But it’s fascinating. And I’m so grateful to you for sharing all of that one, last question because there’s just such a wide range of use cases that we’ve covered and, you know, circumstances, injuries, illnesses, conditions where FSM can help make profound changes for people. So one question that, especially for people listening, who haven’t yet used FSM, with, you know, with any of your devices or ours, there’s this kind of notion of like, a lock and key, for example, you talked about resonance and certain frequencies like if you have a key, and you have a door that’s you know, a fascia ligament, disc, Bursa, kidney, you got to find that find the right key for that. How do you know for those listeners who haven’t experienced this yet?
You know, does the opera singer ring down from the sky and the glass breaks? Or do you have to wait now and see how someone responds? Or how do you know when you’re on the right frequency that’s affecting somebody, I think it’s important that we cover that before we say it’s actually
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 47:42
In a published paper about that Jim Osman wrote a paper tissue softening, so we call it to smash. But the frequency is correct in the tissue, it’s a very light touch on your part to be able to perceive it. But the tissue everywhere will soften. If the frequency is being used, anywhere, that is correct. So it’s actually why 50% of the seminar is about differential diagnosis. How do you know where to start? Right? It’s like you have 600.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 48:20
The advanced course, course seminar has two columns, on two sides of one piece of paper, and the advanced course is three columns, on two sides of two pieces of paper, there are hundreds of frequencies. So the course is, it has evolved, thank God, to how to think about conditions and tissues and illness. When you have frequencies is a tool to you treat downstream because the patient wants the belly to stop hurting. But that’s pointless, unless you quiet down the midbrain, reduce the stress response turned down the sympathetic, get the vagus working again, and then you can work on the gut. There’s one place where we don’t use frequencies.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 49:18
And that’s one of your questions I want to get to before we stop. We don’t treat cancer and a discussion. It’s just it’s not safe. We don’t have enough data. If I make a mistake, and I have in the past and I make your pain worse. It’s inconvenient, but it’s going to go back down and it affects the quality of your life, not your life. If I do something out of ignorance, or just lack of data that make your cancer worse.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 49:51
You may not have time to get back on top of it so we don’t keep treating cancer. The frequencies we have for infection are really helpful once the infection is cleared up. They’re also helpful to help to diagnose the infection. So the patient comes in and they’re coughing. And so you run the frequencies for pneumonia, and everything gets warm and the patient gets sleepy. And then you stop and you tell the patient, you’re going to urgent care and you’re going to get antibiotics. That’s the end of the discussion. I had one patient that was like that. And she was one of those that wasn’t going to take antibiotics. So I called her husband and ratted her out.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 50:34
And he urgent care. We don’t treat infection, we don’t treat fatal diseases. So sleep apnea. Everybody wants to know, is there any way I can treat sleep apnea that doesn’t involve a CPAP? No. There’s, there’s a book called the promise of sleep, you by William demand, he’s a medical sleep study expert, you read that book. And you become convinced that sleep apnea is a fatal condition, doesn’t matter what else you have. Sleep apnea is what is going to kill you. So we don’t treat that we don’t treat cancer, we don’t treat the infection.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 51:17
And we can clean up the mess afterward. If they’re on antibiotics already, we can treat radiation burns, we can treat the side effects of nausea from chemotherapy, and we can treat the pain from bone metastasis. We can treat terminal patients that have refused standard medical care or failed with it and keep the pain down. But that’s those are, it’s as important to know what not to treat, as it is to know this myriad of things that you can treat.
Yes, absolutely, with great power comes great responsibility. And it’s amazing how you’ve really been a trailblazer in this new field and trained many 1000s of people and in many ways, you’re an inspiration to me and what we’re trying to do with a new fit, you know, to take a new treatment model, and, and change the face of, of treatment and medicine, at least in our you know, obviously we’re focused more in, you know, neuromuscular, in this realm and FSM extends beyond that. And we’re excited to start incorporating FSM and learn from you and so for the people in our network here the in the new fit nation who want to take your courses or read your books or learn more about you. How can people listening find you online, or in the world? Probably the
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 52:51
The best way to get an idea about what FSM is and how it was developed is the resonance effect that’s available on Amazon. And then our website is frequency specific.com. The courses are listed there. It used to be a three-day course then it was three and a half then it went to four and now it’s a five-day comprehensive but then we split it into two three-day modules.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 53:20
One is a pain and injury module, which sounds like it’s what would suit your folks. There’s a neuro visceral module you need the neuro section to be able to treat the pain and injury part optimally. But that way you have less financial and time commitment if you do the three-day modules and they’re all in a video this year. This year and last year we went to Livestream and they’re all available on video underwriting questions right now for the five-day course. So that it’s a course you take 90 minutes at a time, answer 10 questions or 15 questions and then you go on to the next module so it’s it’s it’s a process the webinars in the last two years have turned out to be our continuing education. So I’ve got a webinar on Ehlers Danlos Ehlers Danlos went from being impossible to I just love seeing them walk in the door.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 54:26
They’re so easy to treat. You fix the connective tissue turn the vagus back on quiet down the midbrain and it’s, it lasts a week and it’s a genetic condition. How it works. I have absolutely no idea. But there’s a webinar on Ehlers Danlos on mold strokes on the respiratory unique respiratory virus.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 54:51
And just that’s how we keep in touch is I’ll do a webinar every month or two and was sly It’s and it’s usually case reports of patients that I’ve treated. So it’s, it’s like, what’s your community, the new fit nation and like that, if it’s me, I’m Italian. So it’s the FSM family. Yeah, so that’s, that’s how you start. And if your device can be modified to include our frequency range, because like, the basal ganglia are above the range that you do use, the emotional frequencies are above the range, even the sympathetic is above the range.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 55:37
So yeah, I’m the device company has to be completely separate, because the FDA, I can say things about the frequencies that can’t be said for the devices. The devices are approved in the category of temps devices for the symptomatic treatment of pain conditions. But there is no position from the FDA about the use of frequencies. So I’m a clinician reporting to other clinicians, the affected my clinical experience, and, that gives me a lot of latitudes. With devices. Yeah, so that’s a separate company for the devices.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 56:15
But the training is the important part because you just think about it differently. So, for example, if somebody has a D innervation condition, like AFM are any, any place like RSD, or CRPS, anything where the peripheral nerves are disconnected from the peripheral tissue? Anything you do to that peripheral tissue gets converted into a pain in the thalamus. So you have to be able to do both. Right. So it’s, it’s how you, it’s how you think about it, that that changes once you have a tool. So you have the tool, and your students and your network are very enthusiastic, the ones I’ve met, and I would be happy to have them incorporate FSM into what they’re already doing with your device.
Fabulous, yes, we have had several mutual colleagues, you know, have the newbie the new fit device here and have gone through your training. And thankfully, we can do most of the frequencies. But yes, we are working on some modifications to be able to add additional outstanding. And for I know that you know on some of our mastermind calls, those who have gone through your training have been raving about how it’s complemented what we’re doing and how it’s helping them work in an even wider range of cases. And that’s part of why we’re so excited to introduce this to our family to our nation here. And
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 58:09
I’m glad they find it a good compliment. I’m my one of my watch phrases is my job is to make your job easier. Yes, more efficient, and less expensive.
I like that. I like that. That I think that’s a good note on which to say goodbye. We want to make everyone who’s listening here the all the practitioners make your jobs easier and more fulfilling and rewarding and exciting by being able to provide the tools and resources and knowledge to make the biggest impact possible. And Dr. McMahon you’ve been doing that for 25 plus years and the FSM world. Thank you for the work that you’re doing. And thanks for coming on and sharing it with all of us.
[Dr. Carolyn McMakin] 58:50
Oh, thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Take care. Bye.
Thank you so much for listening to the undercurrent podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review and be sure to subscribe to stay up to date as we release future episodes.