Husband and wife team David Harris, MD and Michele Zink Harris, PT, own and operate CHARM Austin – a regenerative medicine facility among the first of its kind to incorporate physical therapy and regenerative medicine.
In this episode, Michele recounts some of the more amazing outcomes she’s been able to have with this neurological approach to physical therapy and how it’s made even more powerful by her husband’s team of regenerative medicine specialists.
Intro: (00:00)
But just because you affect and improve the structural integrity of a joint doesn’t mean that, miraculously, those compensatory movement patterns or dysfunctional firing patterns just get better.
Garrett Salpeter: (00:18)
I’m Garrett Salpeter, and I believe that the most powerful and transformative way to help people recover from pain and injury, heal from trauma, and reach their highest levels of fitness and performance is to focus on the nervous system. In this podcast, we’ll share knowledge from the frontiers of neuroscience and inspirational stories of how applying that knowledge has empowered people from all walks of life to heal, adapt, and grow. Welcome to this episode of the Undercurrent Podcast. I am joined today by Michelle Harris, a physical therapist and co-founder of CHARM here in Austin, Texas. It’s an acronym that stands for Center for Healing and Regenerative Medicine. Thank you so much for being here.
Michelle Harris: (01:00)
My honor.
Garrett Salpeter: (01:01)
I am very excited to talk with you today, Michelle, and hear a lot about what you’re doing at CHARM because you have a very compelling mix of physical therapy, regenerative medicine, and definitely, we definitely want to dive into that. Before, however, we get into that, can you tell us please a little bit about your career, progression, and where you started? I know you’ve taken a few different turns along the way.
Michelle Harris: (01:27)
Yes. A couple little turns that kind of figured to be obvious when they’re seen in retrospect. So I was a competitive gymnast, both in my youth and through college. And so I knew pretty early on that I wanted to be a physical therapist. And so, as a gymnast, I was like, “Oh, well, I’m going to be a sports medicine physical therapist,” because that’s what I’ve seen. And as I worked through PT school, I realized that wasn’t near as interesting as my long rotation, which was in neuro rehab. It was a rehab center down in Corpus Christi. And so I quickly, very early on, got an appreciation that everything’s neuro. And so that’s really the backbone of my entry into PT. I took my first position, which I stayed at for 10 years, at St. David’s Rehabilitation Center here in Austin. And I was on their spinal cord injury team, and their brain injury team saw some strokes and saw some orthopedics. So you’re kind of comprehensive rehab and gravitated towards spinal cord injury. I was an adjunct faculty member at Texas State for longer than I’d like to admit and taught their spinal cord injury unit. It was awesome, and then also during those years in the nineties, I worked as an instructor and trainer for Medtronic Neurological in their movement disorder division. And so that, again, was very neuro based and very movement disorder based. And that kind of led those years of my life. And once that was over and we started having kids, I guess I missed a spot where David entered my life. Dr. David Harrison entered my life as a physical medicine and rehab doctor, and so we’ve known each other since the nineties as well. And then the next stage was just working with complex rehab equipment. And so that led itself too really kind of a foundation of accessibility and autonomy for people with really complex rehab needs but it’s the backbone.
Garrett Salpeter: (03:46)
That’s awesome. So you have this very rich foundation of experience in the neuro world. And then through that, you connected with your now-husband, Dr. David Harris. So if we say Dr. David, that’s who we’re referring to, Co-founder also with you of Charm. And tell us please, then next, what was the process or how did you come to start this new clinic together?
Michelle Harris: (04:18)
Yes. It was a lot of years. I mean, through the nineties and through the, you know, early 2000s, we were kind of seemingly on different paths. And it’s funny looking back now, because it’s like we had these vows in our wedding that were like two ships, kind of going side by side to the same destination. We didn’t realize it. It was like, “Oh my God, that came true.” That’s so weird. But the charm was that destination, and we really didn’t ever think we would be in practice together.
Garrett Salpeter: (04:50)
That’s powerful.
Michelle Harris: (04:51)
It seemed like I was,
Garrett Salpeter: (04:52)
The wedding vows did. It’s like selfish story prophecy.
Michelle Harris: (04:54)
Yes. And there was this cool other part about not being bound together but instead stepping side by side, so you didn’t bounce into each other and destroy each other. It was actually kind of cool.
Garrett Salpeter: (05:02)
That’s cool. That’s beautiful.
Michelle Harris: (05:03)
Anyway, we didn’t realize that we were even traveling the same direction, but round about 2008, 2009, we were like, you know, if we’re ever going to start something together, this is the time the boys were getting a little older. I was looking for the next thing. And all of this time since the mid-1990s, Dr. David has been a pioneer, educator, and innovator in regenerative medicine. So we knew that was his part of CHARM, but what was my part? And so that neuro piece just laid the groundwork for what CHARM became. And the name and the logo are all really, really symbolic because, you know, healing had to be in the name; you know, regenerative medicine had to be in the name; but we’re really at the foundation, and there’s a foundational truth, right? That the body does the healing. The doctor doesn’t do the healing, and the therapist doesn’t do the healing, but your body does the healing. And so that had to be in the name. And then, you know, the logo shows that that mix of structure and function, which is the groundwork of what CHARM brings together.
Garrett Salpeter: (06:23)
That’s awesome. And I love how, you know, you say everything is neuro and how you work that in a place where people come for, you know, primarily regenerative medicine—they’re coming to regrow cartilage or help with more structural challenges. And you’re helping them with a very functional neurological approach. So I love how you’ve been able to blend that. Let’s dive into that a little bit now too. So, one of the tools that you use is the NUAC. And I know that when we first met, we talked a lot about it. You told me about what you’ve been doing with it. It definitely piqued my interest because you seem to be working through a very similar neurological lens, and can you talk about that and what it does and how you implement it into your practice?
Michelle Harris: (07:12)
Yes. I mean, it is kind of one of those things where there is a gap, right? So we get a lot of a very diverse population at CHARM. We get a lot of people who have been in pain for a long time. We get a lot of people who maybe had surgery and are still in pain. We had a lot of people with just degenerative joint disease and or, you know, a nasty tear that they really like to not or to avoid surgery. And so the structure piece, like you said, is just that the regenerative medicine. But just because you affect and improve the structural integrity of a joint doesn’t mean that miraculously those compensatory movement patterns or dysfunctional firing patterns just get better. Certainly a stable joint is required for that. And that structural piece is really important. But many times the neurological and neuromuscular dysfunction is what led to the degenerative joint disease or that tear to begin with. And so just because you fixed that structure doesn’t mean that it goes away. And there was a gap because I couldn’t, in a lot of our patients, I just couldn’t decrease that global muscle upregulation. I couldn’t tease away the compensatory movement patterns with just what I had with my hands and some pieces of equipment, and some other neuromuscular based therapy strategies. And I was seriously sitting at my kitchen table Googling closed kinetic chain therapy, body weight therapy, and the research on the NIAC popped up. And what it is, is a closed chain suspension therapy, much like a TRX, but it has the ability to offload the body at numerous points so that you can decrease that global muscle compensation, get somebody completely out of pain, and still work through a closed chain suspension exercise. And that was important because you need that multi segmental control, right? So when you’re working through a closed chain to get something done, you have to stabilize everything upstream and downstream from that point of closed chain contact in order to make something happen. But I couldn’t do it effectively without offloading the body. And yes, I have stocked them for some time and read all their research. They’re based in Norway and so it’s not a huge thing here in the United States. But after stalking them, I realized, you know, this is the missing link between, yes, I’ve got the osteoligamentous structure now from regenerative medicine, but I’ve got to reprogram the neuromuscular system and the brain in a situation that’s pain-free and offloaded enough where the person can be successful.
Garrett Salpeter: (10:20)
That’s awesome. So, the offloading is, you know, in a gravity based environment, normal day-to-day activity, a lot of times those compensatory patterns are so built in that someone, you know, if someone’s having to shift to one leg or you’re rotated in a certain position or something like that to get enough leverage or mechanical advantage to just move, then they, you know, just the gravity in their body weight can be too much to force them to do that. So you’re able to get them in a position where they can relearn these kinds of component pieces. Learn it in that safe and controlled environment, and then incorporate it back into the next time they meet gravity.
Michelle Harris: (11:00)
Yes. And the other thing about the Redcord is that it’s very diagnostic. So, when you’re looking at a person, you see the compensation, but you don’t necessarily know where the dysfunction is. And what’s been really cool is that, I mean, 85% of the time, if you’ve got right gluteal pain, the dysfunction is actually on the left side. And you can see it in ropes because there’s no place to hide you as a therapist; you can quickly see where that dysfunction is happening. Where the weak link is, the way NIAC puts it. Where the weak link is residing and then offload the body so you get the right muscle at the right time and in the right amount firing, and then you just take away the help. And so, because I’m a very impatient person, this therapy hit it because it’s not like reps and sets. That’s why I didn’t go into sports medicine, by the way, because I was like, “Oh my gosh.” No. And so it’s not reps and sets; it’s not doing more to get muscles stronger. It’s like a light switch. You’re changing the neurological piece of the neuromuscular control, and it’s a very input-based system.
Garrett Salpeter: (12:18)
So hearing you speak about this now and, you know, when we met a couple years ago, I was intrigued because we, I mean we even used similar terminologies, you know, definitely have a similar perspective. So with that, you know, you’ve been using that in your practice when we met, for almost eight to 10 years?
Michelle Harris: (12:39)
Yes. Since 2011, which is when I came.
Garrett Salpeter: (12:41)
So, when you had been using it for seven years or so when, six or seven years when we met and were getting good outcomes, and on the PT side, you know, talk a little bit about regenerative side too. But on the PT side, you’ve got the NIAC in place. So if people here, the term Redcord or NIAC, the Redcord is like a scaled-down version. The NIAC is the more medical therapeutic grade version, right? Is that?
Michelle Harris: (13:06)
Yes. It’s kind of fun. Again, it goes back to its Norwegian roots. There’s a Norwegian term “Den road trodden,” which literally translates as Redcord. And the reason why they say den road trodden is because it has to do with, and it’s a Chinese thing too, it has to do with that invisible red thread that runs between everyone who’s basically destined to meet, is what the Chinese version of it is. What’s this invisible red thread that, you know, you’re destined to meet somebody. It doesn’t matter. Time, place, circumstance, you are going to meet them. And even though it might be stretched or tangled, it’s never broken, and you will meet that person. So, but anyway,
Garrett Salpeter: (13:53)
That’s kind of cool.
Michelle Harris: (13:54)
It is cool. Yes. It’s kind of like those vows.
Garrett Salpeter: (13:57)
Right.
Michelle Harris: (13:57)
But, the concept of Redcord is kind of thing that connects rehab injury. Rehabilitation leads to an active lifestyle and fitness for optimal performance. And so you go from being really offloaded and nurturing those proper movement patterns to more active taking off all that help to I think, I mean, a big percent of. I know the Norwegians, but also a lot of Asia, the Olympic teams in Asia use Redcord as training tools for their athletes. So it has that cord through it that, you know, brings that together.
Garrett Salpeter: (14:42)
I’ve also shared with you that a couple of the major league baseball teams that we’ve worked with have Redcord in there too, so everyone can visualize, it’s basically a series of literal cords suspended from the ceiling that, you know, you as the patient would be lying on the table and it would suspend part of your body to offload, like Michelle was talking about, offload part of the body. So, I mean, you can Google it or find an image of it, but that’s, series of literal cords that suspend from the ceiling. You can do some really precise movement patterns with it. So you’ve been using this in your practice movement by the time we met for six, seven years getting very good outcomes with it. What made you interested in the possibility of bringing in a Neubie?
Michelle Harris: (15:37)
Yes. I think, like the Redcord, I stalked you for a number of years too, and, you know, I was really looking at: was there another gap that Redcord wasn’t filling to the potential that I wanted it to fill; was there more diagnostically that we could do? And really, it just took me really understanding it as best I could so that the Neubie could give me more information than I could with just the testing in the Redcord. And then as I got to know and understand NeuFit in my infancy here still but the ability to scan the body and again, see where aspects of the body were resistant or fearful of thresholds or, you know, just fearful of loading, because that’s exactly what we see in the Redcord is that, you know, if there’s that fear and loading, that’s when you have to offload them. But with the Neubie, just seeing how you could scan the body and, really, again, very disparate areas of the body are involved, and it was just so synergistic to the work in the Redcord that I just felt like there was another gap there that we could fill and more information on where the dysfunction was actually at. And then be able to apply directly to that dysfunction as you worked in the chords. That it was just, once I understood enough about the Neubie and the NeuFit method, it just seemed like a no-brainer that was the next gap that we needed to try to fill. There’s a piece that we haven’t really talked about though, and that’s that sympathetic of regulation piece, because that’s another piece in the Redcord NIAC method. That’s huge. We talk about these kinetic chains of motion, but before that is that neutral zone local motor control piece and downregulating everything enough to be able to get to that deeper stabilizer system, and the NeuFits into that hole as well, where there’s a big piece of sympathetic downregulation and the ability to address that with some of our patients who just have complex needs, long-term chronic pain. And anything that you can help peel that onion is going to be beneficial.
Garrett Salpeter: (18:32)
That’s awesome. And that was another one of these kind of, you know, shared talking points or similar co foundational concepts that we’re guiding the, you know, kind of our operating systems. And so another, you know, very important point of connection.
Ad (NeuFit Course Introduction): (18:49)
If you’re ready to supercharge your practice, listen to this. Garrett and team NeuFit have just released a new online course entitled Introduction to the NeuFit Method. In this detailed 8-week course, you’ll gain mastery of the fundamental techniques in our practice, including muscle testing and activations, nerve glides, and joint articulations. You’ll also get introduced to our patented direct current stimulation device, the Neubie, an incredible machine that’s empowered professionals just like you to help their patients heal, adapt, and grow faster than they ever thought possible. To learn more, go to www.portal.neu.fit/learn. And now back to the show.
Garrett Salpeter: (19:23)
So now that you’ve implemented the Neubie, you’ve had it in there for about a year now?
Michelle Harris: (19:29)
No, just December. January.
Garrett Salpeter: (19:33)
Ok. So three quarters of almost eight, three quarters of a year.
Michelle Harris: (19:37)
Yes. There are a few months in there too. Only I was using it.
Garrett Salpeter: (19:41)
That’s right,
Michelle Harris: (19:42)
I got pretty good, though. That helped actually to have some time just with it and me.
Garrett Salpeter: (19:47)
So since you’ve been using it, how or are there any interesting outcomes, particular patients, or scenarios that come to mind where it’s been particularly impactful?
Michelle Harris: (20:03)
Wow. That’s a really loaded question. I think, again, the sympathetic downregulation piece has been pretty profound. Since our patient population is, I think by definition, because there’s pain involved and there’s at times there’s been long term pain involved, there’s sympathetic upregulation involved and that alone has been very helpful. Got some really interesting stuff, you know, sleeping better, my digestion’s better. I mean, all of these strange things that people can barely put their finger on but know that they want to do it when they come back in, don’t take that piece away. And it’s like, okay, you know. The other piece is just the ability to scan and be very, very precise with where we’re going to put the electrodes to load this system during the activities, whether we’re on the NIAC or not. It has been super helpful. The NIAC brings with it very rapid change at times, and I feel like the Neubie has just taken that up a notch or two. And the other piece is the ability to just lengthen and relax those muscles, whereas working in the Redcord does make people more relaxed because you’re getting the right neuromuscular input and the right coordination, and people will step off of their wit feeling, “Oh my gosh, my hip is so much looser.” But the combination, again has just been, it’s just a really powerful combination. And again, it’s the diagnostic versus, or the diagnostic in addition to, the therapeutic benefit of it. The other piece is we have a big population of EDS patients. It was so funny that you mentioned that on the mastermind call because we have so many EDS patients in our practice.
Garrett Salpeter: (22:08)
Oh, sorry. So just for everyone listening, Ehlers-Danlos syndrome.
Michelle Harris: (22:11)
Ehlers-Danlos syndrome is a hypermobility of the connective tissue, which just screams, “I need regenerative medicine.” Right? Because it’s white tissue and it needs to be more stable. But it’s also because, by definition, this individual’s connective tissue is unstable. We want to try to make that neuromuscular system more stable.
Garrett Salpeter: (22:35)
All the more important.
Michelle Harris: (22:36)
All the more important. Yes. And I have had such good results with the EDS population. Mostly young girls, it seems like have EDS. They tend to be really beautiful dancers and really good swimmers and just have connective tissue that’s super-duper lax. But with lax connective tissue, you then have a neuromuscular system that’s trying to basically hold you together. And so the combination of using the Neubie to kind of relax where we want certain muscles to relax but then using it to truly improve the neuromuscular tone around really lax joints has been very interesting. And again, just like learning every day how to use it better.
Garrett Salpeter: (23:24)
And that’s one of the things that we’ve talked a fair bit about: for those of you listening who don’t have a Neubie, you can manipulate certain settings on there to preferentially, you know, relax or reset tone, and then different settings to create more tension in certain areas. And so you’ve been able to use that strategically in those places and for that type of thing.
Michelle Harris: (23:43)
Yes. I’m starting to become more strategic with that. I mean, I truly feel very new, but that’s part of the fun. I mean, I feel like a kid again because it’s like, “Oh my gosh, I can do this.” I mean, it’s just that excitement of just figuring something else out.
Garrett Salpeter: (24:02)
Yes. That’s awesome. Very good. Can we talk for a moment about—just think of everyone who’s listening who may not know all of the intricacies—or just, you know, can you give a little bit of an overview on regenerative medicine and kind of the other piece that you’re doing there at CHARM, and, you know, we’ve had several patients who we’ve worked with here at NeuFit? I’m on the functional side, and we find that we can’t quite get all the way there, so these structural interventions are helpful. And so we’ve had people that, you know, we’ve referred across town to see you to work with Dr. David to do these wonderful regenerative injections. Can you just give everyone a little bit of an overview of regenerative medicine and the suite of services that you offer there at CHARM?
Michelle Harris: (24:46)
Sure. Yes. You know, in reality, the regenerative medicine piece of CHARM. Regenerative medicine, you know, people may have heard things like “Prolotherapy” or “PRP.” When you use the term Prolotherapy,” it’s like the overarching concept of regenerative medicine, “Prolotherapy” stands for “Proliferation Therapy.” Right? So you’re proliferating the body to basically mount a new inflammatory process. I always tell you, I always use the ankle sprain as an example because it’s easy. So you sprain your ankle, it goes through this inflammatory process and over a set of months, you know, you have the inflammatory and then you have this, and you have the remodeling and you know, you have this healing process. At the end of that, your body’s kind of done, and you may still have a really unstable ankle, which you probably will roll again. And then you’ve got a new inflammatory process, and you heal that up, but connective tissue is not contractile. So it doesn’t necessarily heal up like it used to be. If there’s tears there is chronic instability. And if you just think about that, then you’ve got physical therapy, the functional side, and you’ve got surgery. Well, there’s going to be regenerative medicine,
Garrett Salpeter: (26:21)
There’s got to be some.
Michelle Harris: (26:22)
Let’s talk gaps. Right? So regenerative medicine is this humongous gap filler in which you can use injectable like dextrose solution all the way up to somebody’s platelet-rich plasma, or bone marrow aspirate concentrate, which are different biologics that we use in the same fashion as regenerative medicine. And basically you just take it and you inject all of the different connective tissues around this body.
Garrett Salpeter: (26:53)
You take it out of the patient’s body. So it’s their own stuff.
Michelle Harris: (26:55)
Yes. So in the realm of PRP, you draw the blood, we process it in the lab, and you get this platelet-rich plasma. It’s basically the same as if you just did the dextrose solution; let’s say you did basic prolotherapy. Your body’s going to bring in the army to take care of that new injury. That new inflammatory response, and then it’s going to do its normal healing response, which in and of itself is just super cool because you’re using the body’s own natural healing process. You just have to clear the barriers of stagnation and jumpstart again. But with something like PRP, you bring the army already to the war. So you get in there, you inject the area, you already have the platelet-rich plasma right there, and they’re just ready to do their job because it’s right there. But really, the sequence of the body using that is the same in both. And you take it up another notch to use the bone marrow in the stem cells that are taken from bone marrow as per concentrate. And then you’ve got, and we use that always in addition to PRP, we never use stem cells. And you’ll hear it around a lot of places: stem cell discs and stem cells. Be careful because you want to make sure that, you know, it’s in a regenerative medicine process and we always use PRP in addition to that stem cell work. And you’re just going to utilize the different aspects of regenerative medicine depending on what you’re looking at. You know, if it’s a really degenerative joint, you’ve got lots of cartilage damage, and you’re really trying to stave off a total knee replacement. You know, you might go for the bone marrow plus the PRP if it’s just a really floppy joint, you might just do prolotherapy. If it’s a medial meniscus tear or rotator cuff tear, you might go with PRP. So that it’s really specific to that tear and to the whole joint integrity. One of the really cool things, because again, all of those are meant to mountain inflammatory process and put the body back into a healing cascade for those particular connective tissues. But now we’re further refining that by not using the platelets so that you get an inflammatory process but actually just lysating those platelets. So you don’t have the inflammatory process anymore, but you still have all of the healing aspects of those biologics, and that’s called platelet lysate. And the platelet lysate can be used around nerves where you don’t necessarily want an inflammatory process. But you want the healing that those biologics can produce for the body. So,
Garrett Salpeter: (29:45)
But the soldiers but not the battle.
Michelle Harris: (29:47)
Exactly. Yes, something like that, different soldiers. I’m sure they’re women because they’re anti-inflammatory right now. I don’t know, but different soldiers. And, yes, it doesn’t inflame the area.
Garrett Salpeter: (30:03)
So like the army Corps of Engineers instead of the battalion or something?
Michelle Harris: (30:07)
Some different route there, but it does, it has actually has an anti-inflammatory response. So you can do it around a herniated disc to not only help like an epidural steroid. Right? It would decrease the inflammation around that herniated disc and free up that nerve root so you’re not having pain down your leg anymore. But if you do platelet lysate, not only do you anti inflame the area, so you’re not having that compression down that nerve root anymore, but also you’re putting in more of a regenerative process around that nerve. So if there’s been any damage to that nerve root because of that compression, now we’ve got that nerve root healing better as well. So that’s a really exciting piece of regenerative medicine.
Garrett Salpeter: (30:49)
That’s awesome. Thank you for that overview. That’s excellent, and I think you said it best, at least in terms of my kind of perspective where, you know, functional physical therapy and some of the things that we’ve been talking about. And then at the other end of the spectrum is surgery, and there’s something in between. I’ll speak to my own experience: I became a patient of CHARM after getting to know you and Dr. David, and I had some hip, you know, torn some cartilage in my hip, and I have, you know, made significant progress in managing it and restoring function, doing our own stuff, doing NeuFit over the years, of course. And when I really push it, if I’m really sprinting hard or if I’m, you know, out on the ice playing hockey again, you know, it’ll be sore. So I became a patient a few months ago and did the bone marrow treatment, took the bone marrow out of my pelvis, and had it injected into the hip capsule. It’s made a difference. It’s better. So I can speak, you know, from my experience, and as I said, we’ve had several mutual patients who have had very, very positive outcomes there as well. So if anyone listening here wants to learn more about you, look up CHARM. Let them know—you know, your website, social media—where’s the best place to connect with you and your team?
Michelle Harris: (32:12)
Yes. The website is good. You know, it has a lot of information on how those pieces of structure and function, but specifically on the regenerative side that need to really stabilize that joint and improve that connective tissue integrity. Yes. It’s simple. www.charmaustin.com is the website. A lot of studies on there that you can refer to. It lays our regenerative medicine procedures that we talked about but also for interventions for pain. You know, all of our doctors also do epidural steroids and, you know, joint injections as well. You know, it’s the difference between relieving pain and truly repairing an injury. So that’s the difference. You know, we can relieve pain in lots of different ways, and that’s super important, as we know, in the neuromuscular control of things. You’re never going to have neuromuscular control of something if there’s pain present, and vice versa.
Garrett Salpeter: (33:23)
Chicken or the egg.
Michelle Harris: (33:23)
The chicken or the egg, yes. It is the pain because of the input issues, and, you know, that would take another hour. But, you know, I totally agree with all of that. But regenerative medicine is more about truly repairing injuries and resolving that pain rather than just relieving it.
Garrett Salpeter: (33:48)
I love, I mean, the proof of concept that you’ve shown, how powerful a combination it can be to do these regenerative practices and have this neurologically neuromuscular-based, you know, physical therapy, and how powerful that combination can be, how it leads to excellent outcomes, and how it really has differentiated you and set your clinic apart, certainly in the central Texas area here. You know, I mean, I’ve known people who have come in to see you from other states, even other countries.
Michelle Harris: (34:18)
So, Yes. We have that map. It still surprises me. It still surprises me that there isn’t more of putting that obvious structure and function under one roof. We obviously do it all the time. Physicians refer to physical therapists. Physical therapists, you know, we need the surgeons and the regenerative medicine. You need each other, and I am surprised that it hasn’t happened more often.
Garrett Salpeter: (34:46)
Well, you’re leading the charge. So if you do want to check them out, remember www.charmaustin.com. Thank you so much, Michelle.
Michelle Harris: (34:55)
Thank you.
Garrett Salpeter: (34:55)
I guess we do these, the knuckle bumps.
Michelle Harris: (35:00)
The knuckle bumps. Yes.
Garrett Salpeter: (35:01)
In this Covid world.
Michelle Harris: (35:02)
Yes. I just want to say really quickly how much the relationship between forward-thinking clinicians. Austin is kind of a mecca. In that way, I think we have such cool, forward-thinking clinicians, doctors, therapists, and trainers in this city. It’s just a real honor to work together and keep moving it forward. It’s a lot of fun.
Garrett Salpeter: (35:31)
We feel the same way, and you and your team are prime examples. We love working with you, your therapists on your team, and the doctors and it’s all good. So, yes. So if you’re listening, come to Austin. Not only that, there’s really good barbecue.
Michelle Harris: (35:44)
There is definitely good barbecue.
Garrett Salpeter: (35:45)
Yes, awesome. Thank you so much for being here.
Michelle Harris: (35:46)
Thanks Garrett.
Garrett Salpeter: (35:48)
It’s been an absolute pleasure. Another episode of the Undercurrent Podcasts.
Outro: (35:53)
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